I still don't understand why y'all insist Hitogami is a bad writing decision when the second the last episode of the first season makes it obvious that he's a low-key awful person hiding stuff from Rudeus and whose suggestions help as often as they go completely off the rails. Also I don't understand how your complaints with Hitogami has anything to do with the rest of your points.
That aside, the tendencies of people who recommend the series purposefully either playing down how awful the gross parts are or playing up the narrative's interest in discussing it does leave the impression that they subconsciously acknowledge how indefensible it actually is.
Edited by Mami on Jul 22nd 2022 at 3:14:03 PM
I absolutely cannot help but adore handsome 2D boysI was supposed referring to Rudy taking on his previous form during those segments, which really just reinforces how much older he is than most of the girls he pervs on, but I also hate those parts for being pointless wastes of time that ultimately amount to "go do a thing you were logically going to do without my saying so anyway."
Edited by TropayXion on Jul 22nd 2022 at 4:25:58 PM
Hitogami is still kinda iffy to me too, since he does basically appear to shake up the plot whenever it stalls. And we're gonna have to wait to see his master plan, so I'll have to reserve my thoughts until we learn what that is, and how sending Rudy to get that magic precognitive eyeball contributes towards that goal.
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Yeah, basically the perversion is indefensible. Maybe the people recommending this anime know it's a big obstacle to watching, so they downplay it in the hopes people will pick it up. Or otherwise people like the good parts so much they sincerely think these flaws are miniscule in comparison.
Same with Cultivation Web Novels and Manhua from China and Gamer System and Returner Novels and Manwha from Korea. They fill the Isekai niche there (And some Cultivation series are also Isekai, and Returner series are usually alwayts Reverse Isekai).
Watch SymphogearThe reason Mushoku Tensei is being treated a bit different is that the studio came together for the express purpose of doing a full adaptation so they're putting more work into than you'd normally expect. Its still a junk food series. Its like going to Five Guys instead of Mc Donalds.
Its not high art and critiquing it like it is is where you get the tonal nightmare like trying to puzzle out why Rudeus' tendencies aren't addressed.
I'd actually disagree, even putting aside the animation it does have more effort put in the character writing and world building that dismissing it as a junk food series feels too convenient. There's actual care and sentimentality put into the narrative it wants to create, which makes its crimes of resorting to basic fetish bait even worse than if it was simply doing the bare minimum of wish fulfilment.
I absolutely cannot help but adore handsome 2D boysHonestly it's always been the fandom that put me off of watching this series past the first dozen episodes as much as the way Rudy's pedophilia is addressed by the author. Just the argument you see on this page is enough to encapsulate why.
Unlike any other isekai I can think off this one has a Sacred Cow status little others have a chance of gaining, precisely because of the word of mouth praise of its best elements. The fandom just isn't welcoming or understanding of those who are critical of Jobless Reincarnation.
A lot of that has to do with it being the originator of the tropes found in other series. That being said there's series I will die on the hill of, like Reincarnated as a Slime, Arifureta (anime non-withstanding) and Shield Hero. Mushoku Tensei is normally not one of them. I'm not the biggest fan of how it ends (even if its a novel idea) and I have a lot of the same issues others have expressed here (though not to the same extent). I'm just so sick of people tearing into isekai in general that I'm willing to swallow what criticisms I have and go to bat for it just out of sheer frustration of the climate online towards isekai.
I'd disagree with the premise that Mushoku Tensei is a junk food series. The characte writing and worldbuilding are seriously good; in fact, this is what makes the fetish bait as Mami put it more baffling. Like a dead fly in a delicious soup.
I'd also disagree with the premise that isekai is merely "junk food" that's immune to critique. I think the subgenre has enough above average to actually good stuff that it's unfair to dismiss it out of hand.
I disliked Hitogami at the start, and to an extent I'm still not fond of some of the stuff around him. Like Rudy getting the magical eye. Or how a lot of the stuff Rudy is doing becomes kind of boring once I know for sure its going to work out. At least until it inevitably doesn't in what'll probably be a turning point.
But I did end up appreciating him more as it became obvious he's just doing all of this to gain Rudy's trust for something in the future.
I'll also agree this isn't really "junk food" as a lot of bare bones Isekai are.
And that's probably the big reason its so decisive because it does have a great story below the skeeve.
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I'm kinda surprised that people actually do criticize Reincarnated as a Slime seeing as I can barely find anything on the YMMV page, and even though this probably isn't the place to ask, what do folks typically say? Because when it comes to Arifureta & Shield Hero, I've probably heard as much as you.
I agree about the junk food stuff. Even though I'm an anime-only I'll pretty much die on a hill of defending Re Zero because it's so far the only Serious-Isekai with genuinely good writing. I don't how or why I would see it as junk food when it does almost everything right.
Anyway, I'll try not to make huge walls of text in future. On the subject of Mushoku Tensei's biggest flaw being indefensible, well people are going to find this out sooner rather than later, the question lies in how they're gonna react to it. Season 2 is probably going to cover Rudeus dealing with his erectile dysfunction nonsense, which IIRC is going to be cured by him sleeping with yet another child, which will just showcase that the series is just doubling down on it's hypocrisy without a care after what took place with Rudy & Eris. I can only imagine if people are going either be desensitized by the time the wedding bells start ringing in the later seasons or if more people are going to start becoming vocal even about this contradictory bullshit than they were when season 1 was airing.
Not that it makes it any better but you should be more specific about the ages when you discuss that spoiler.
As for Slime its a lot of hype aversion I hear, or people ragging on Rimuru for his actions that lead up to his ascending to true demon lord and calling them indefensible (saw this a lot on ANN).
Arifureta has flaws but I vastly prefer it to Re:Zero.
Edited by Silentedge89 on Jul 22nd 2022 at 11:25:48 AM
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Yep, divisive is the best way to put it regarding reactions to Mushoku Tensei's sleaziness. As annoying as it is to see people downplay that aspect, it's also somewhat annoying to discredit the writing of the entire show. Again, people could stand to be more nuanced in their critiques.
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I mean, I already think the sexualization is indefensible. It's not just Rudeus. There's Paul, there's Roxy masturbating, there's the bikini armor girl. The sexualization is prevalent and a lot of the times unnecessary.
I bounced off season one of Slime honestly, it was a bit boring. Maybe I should read the manga though.
Re Zero is probably my favorite modern Isekai.
Although I don't think its perfect. Spoilers for the Light Novels covering the currently adapted anime I'm only up to date with the official light novel translation, so I don't know if it changes in the future but I'm not really fond of the "have your cake and eat it too" stuff that seems to be going on with Rem being willing to be Subaru's mistress. It was definitely more prominent in the LN and I honestly think if the story follows though on it later on I'll think less of the series.
Slime Isekai I thought was alright at the start, but rapidly got dreadfully boring to me. The first 4 or so episodes were great, but I really had to force myself to get though the rest.
While checking the release date for Season 2, I saw that the voice actor for Rudy will be changing for the next season.
I suppose that makes sense. I wonder if they'll get a third one, or if the adult Rudy voice actor will continue the role?
It seems like the anime director also raised the idea of adapting one of the future arcs as a movie.
I wonder if that would mean totally skipping that content in the series, or doing a recap/speeding though the content.
I know there have been a fair few big anime getting partially adapted in film form lately, so I guess its a bit of a trend right now.
Of all the horny scenes in the show, that one with Roxy is probably the most harmless, if only because it didn't feel like Rudy was going out of his way to leer (he actually backed off, in a shocking twist, didn't he?). ...That said, I do not really remember why that scene was there to begin with. And there's that stupidity with her panties going on that is just way more noticeably wat.
I don't want to comment too much on other series in this thread... but hoo boy this is very incomprehensible to me.
Re:Zero's certainly the golden standard for isekai stuff for me, alongside Konosuba. It just does everything right. And I guess Slime getting more boring as it went on is a more common sentiment than I realised. A surefire way to make something uninteresting to watch is to make your character completely unbeatable and then pretend any battle they're involved in has any stakes.
I find Re:Zero a depressing slog. If others like it that's fine, they aren't wrong to. I just personally don't like it. My general stance on animanga has come to be, "Dislike something if you dislike it, like something if you like it, but don't proselytize about it one way or another unless you've been specifically asked to." S'why if you've seen me around the forums over the years you'll notice I try to be noncombative about people's opinions (unless they're being combative themselves) because I just genuinely don't like arguing with people.
S'why I have no strong opinions on Mushoku Tensei other than the flaws everyone else has stated, and why also why those flaws don't bug me as much. I don't see much point in raking the series over the coals. Its not like its Netflix's Cuties or anything.
REALLY not the place, but the issue with Slime is similar to what happened in a way with Shikimori. People wanted/expected one thing, but got another(Adventure travel, but instead it's fantasy Civ). The anime HAS been criticized for skipping a lot of content and fudging up the pacing which very badly hurt the world building and character writing and the indefensible stuff was literally just one reviewer on ANN. Most everyone recommends the manga and various spinoffs as well as the LN. In the west it's one of the more popular and well regarded isekai and in Japan(and likely the East in general) it's the best selling Isekai(modern definition or otherwise) of all time by a functionally insurmountable margin and second best selling LN behind only the Raildex Franchise.
For Jobless, it's just the general juvenile shlock being an overpowering force vs a decent story. Besides the erectile dysfunction that gets cured when he sleeps with the elf girl, he also cuts out the bloodstained sheet area and adds it to his collection alongside the panties, helps a classmate buy some slaves, ties two girls who broke a figurine of his to a chair until they wet themselves or something to that effect. Like there's so much stuff that's pointlessly juvenile and perverted. A big thing that irks me is that both Saihate no Paladin and Undead Adventurer do similar things(unfulfilled first life and working harder in the new one) while cutting out the perv stuff and sticking to the fantasy stuff, world building, and character writing and feeling much better and well done.
I did not watched the Saihate no Paladin anime when it airred because I was not ready to cry like the manga made me cry again. Might be time to finally watch it. Its such a genuinely good series.
I should have been more clear that my dying on Slime's hill is a response to the few people I find popping into some of my irl, and online, social circles who just aggressively tear into it for no real good reason. I know its generally well liked but contrarians are gonna do what they're gonna do.
Edited by Silentedge89 on Jul 22nd 2022 at 1:18:42 PM
I really just don't get why he couldn't have just made Rudeus be into older woman, characters like Ghislaine are literally right there. And speaking of Hitogami, apparently that thing is messing with the MC's age so that Rudeus' physical age and the MC's mental age start to align and become one and the same as time passes. A type of de-maturing so to speak. I don't know how true this but just makes it all the more clear that being older woman would have done this series wonders
I would really appreciate it if LN spoilers are marked as such. Don’t particularly mind the spoiler about Hitogami, but just in case anyone starts dropping lore bombs on Orsted or whatever.
Anyway, again, no shit, making Rudeus a non-pedophile would be an obvious, significant improvement. But more than that, let’s just remove all the fetish-bait bullcrap.
Yeah while Rudeus tends to be the focus on this conversation, he is but one part of all the shenanigans in this story. Like, his absence does decrease the horniness but stuff like bikini warrior chick would still exist.
Honestly, while fanservice has a right to exist as a mere form of indulgence, I actually don't see how removing most of it wouldn't actually just improve the show.
Edited by Mami on Jul 23rd 2022 at 6:15:03 PM
I absolutely cannot help but adore handsome 2D boys

Yeah, this is essentially my position with the series. I'd heard a lot of great things about it in the lead up to the anime, and when watching it's clear there's so much effort put into it... and right now I'm just hoping that Rudy's creepiness will be dropped from this point, thanks to the end of season's events, because it sure as hell had no interest in resolving his perverted nature like it did with every other issue he has.
Like, I guess the writer just considers Rudeus to be a kid now, so it's not technically a grown man lusting after young girls (does not excuse the groping and removing panties and whatever else, of course, just... would drastically alter the context)... but then we have his adult voice inner monologue, and the genuinely terrible writing decision of a deus ex machina that occasionally invades his dreams and tells him exactly what to do to progress the plot. So, you know, it won't even allow me to try and be lenient on that point.