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Synchronicity god-touched Relationship Status: I've got a total eclipse of the heart
god-touched
Nov 24th 2020 at 1:10:42 PM

According to its description, laconic, and its trope distinctions entry, History with Celebrity is supposed to be for when a celebrity appears As Himself in a work and this is justified by them knowing one of the characters. However, many wicks and onpage examples are actually troping something different: namedropping a real life celebrity the characters supposedly know to make their past seem cool and colorful, like this, and there's no As Himself appearance. Others are also troping "knows an in-universe celebrity" or "they do know this celebrity but he's played by someone else" which to me seems different. The draft launched without ironing but it seems to have been firmly about the former.

It has 46 wicks and I checked them all. I used two misuse categories: namedropping and "friends with someone famous in-universe". I also kinda cheated a bit by googling some of the celebrities mentioned to see if they were real or not :P

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    Celebrity Appears 
  1. Characters.American Housewife: Lisa Vanderpump is his godmother, and he makes use of this connection when the Ottos are vacationing in Los Angeles to arrange a meet-and-greet as a birthday present for Katie.
  2. Characters.Jane The Virgin: Will frequently namedrop his famous friends, enemies, and associates, some of whom (like Charo, Bruno Mars, and Gloria Estefan) actually show up on the show. Justified due to actually being an in-universe celebrity. Not all of them do!
  3. Characters.Parks And Recreation Main Characters: R&B singer Ginuwine is her cousin. In "Moving Up" she pushes him to perform at the Unity Concert by threatening to spill embarrassing childhood stories.
  4. Characters.Static Shock: He mentored a young Shaquille O'Neal at a basketball camp when the latter was Virgil's age and it's shown that Shaq still thinks highly of "Mr. H" when he visits Dakota for a press junket. He also played with In-Universe football player Rashid "The Rocket" Randall in college and they're still friends in the present. (The latter is "fictional celebrity")
  5. Characters.The Cleveland Show: One of her distant cousins is Sofia Vergara. (I had to google this because it lacks context but it appears Sofia Vergara does voice herself)
  6. Film.The Mighty Ducks: In the first film, Basil Mc Rae recognizes Gordon because they played each other in Pee Wee hockeynote . Mike Modano is also familiar with Gordon's prowess, but incorrectly believed Gordon became a farmer instead of a lawyer.
  7. Film.Theres Something About Mary: Mary's old boyfriend Brett is revealed at the end to be football quarterback Brett Favre. That's him
  8. Recap.American Housewife S 4 E 19 Vacation: Conveniently, Lisa Vanderpump is Cooper's godmother, so he is able to get in touch with her and have her do a meet-and-greet with the Ottos. Same as above
  9. Recap.South Park S 2 E 14 Chef Aid When the boys organize a benefit concert for Chef, they discover that he has helped a lot of rock stars in his career. For example, he inspired Meat Loaf's stage name and introduced Elton John to his lyricist, Bernie Taupin. Show up according to the Recap summary
  10. Recap.South Park S 1 E 2 Weight Gain 4000: Garrison lost a high school talent show to Kathy Lee Gifford. He plans to kill her when she comes to town.
  11. Recap.The Simpsons S 4 E 22 Krusty Gets Kancelled: Krusty's half-brother is Luke Perry, and he once co-owned a race horse with Bette Midler. Show up according to the wiki
  12. Series.Crash Landing On You: Korean drama actress Choi Ji-woo is a friend of Se-ri's, and cameos in Episode 13 as a favor for Joo-mok.
  13. Series.Dharma And Greg: Dharma is old friends with Bob Dylan, which is how k.d. lang and Lyle Lovett come to visit her. Dharma once dated a member of ZZ Top and an unnamed senator. Abby is convinced that she was Don Henley's "Witchy Woman". The latter two don't appear
  14. Series.Heidi Bienvenida A Casa: Ulises has a feud with real life chef Pietro Sorba. Sesemann apparently knows him well enough that he was willing to come cook for them as a favor.
  15. Series.Sanford And Son: In "Fred Sings The Blues", Fred meets B.B. King, and finds evindence that he may have wanted to marry Elizabeth before Fred got to her. It later turns out that King was going steady with Esther, and became a blues singer after they broke up.

    Celebrity Does Not Appear 
  1. Characters.Parks And Recreation Government And Media: Name-drops a few. Apparently, she and Karl Lagerfeld partied together on one of her yachts.
  2. Characters.The Good Place Neighborhood: Exaggerated to the point of parody. Tahani can always find an opportunity to namedrop her famous friends and acquaintances even if the situation doesn't call for it, and the actions of afterlife beings like Michael and the Judge suggest that most, if not all, of these connections are real. To start with, she can apparently count Princess Diana, Paul Mc Cartney, Maggie Smith, and Big Ben (yes, the clock) among her godparents. Familiar with the work — they don't appear
  3. Characters.The Office US Michael Scarn: Scarn once took a 20K with Robin Williams, which happened to be the same day Goldenface killed his wife. Had to google: [[https://theoffice.fandom.com/wiki/Goldenface Williams doesn't appear
  4. Characters.The Sopranos Mob Wives And Goomahs: She had a fling with John F. Kennedy. I've never seen this show but I know enough to know he was super dead by this time.
  5. Recap.Schitts Creek 611 The Bachelor Party: Moira screened Panic Room with Jodie Foster herself, and Alexis's relationship with Harry Styles went south because the island he lived on (England) was too rainy.
  6. Recap.Schitts Creek S 37 General Store: Alexis knows more about Marie Antoinette than Jocelyn because of Kristin Dunst, and she low-key dated Prince Harry.
  7. Recap.Schitts Creek 64 Maidof Honour: Diplo still sends Alexis nudes, and she once planned Megan Fox's bachelorette party.
  8. Recap.Schitts Creek S 1 E 3 Dont Worry Its His Sister: Alexis name-drops Gwyneth Paltrow.
  9. Recap.Schitts Creek S 1 E 7 Turkey Shoot: Alexis dated Leonardo Di Caprio, and David used to get invited to Elton John's parties.
  10. Recap.Schitts Creek S 45 RIP Moira Rose: Moira's celebrity friends grieve her, online at least.
  11. Recap.Schitts Creek S 512 The Roast: David asked Mario Lopez for advice during The Little Mister Pageant, which he was hosting at the time.
  12. Recap.Schitts Creek S 55 Housewarming: Moira starred with Joyce Dewitt in a Lifetime Movie. David apparently dressed as a pizza delivery guy to get into Jared Leto's house party. Alexis's high school friend dated Hugh Hefner, but it's not as weird as it sounds because he was a very young 77.
  13. Recap.Schitts Creek S 56 Rock On: Moira once partied with Maggie Trudeau and The Rolling Stones and she had gambling adventures in Vietnam with Condelizza Rice [sic] and Sharon Stone.
  14. Recap.The Sopranos S 5 E 7 In Camelot: Fran had a fling with John F. Kennedy. Same as above
  15. Series.Dash And Lily: Mrs. Basil E mentions going on tour with The Rolling Stones and partying hard with Estelle Getty.
  16. Series.Schitts Creek: All four of the Roses have name-dropped various celebrities, and Moira, David, and Alexis have even dated a few, including John Cougar Mellencamp, Anderson Cooper, and Zac Efron. Alexis also low-key dated Prince Harry, and Johnny and Moira have apparently attended swinger parties hosted by both the Sarkozys and the Castros. David's anecdote about losing his virginity to Tilda Swinton really has to be experienced.

    Friends With Fictional Celebrities 
  1. Characters.Brennus Basil And Friends: They are close friends with the international superstar Polymnia, though only Hecate really cares. Fictional celeb who is a character in her own right
  2. Characters.Confession Executive Committee: Akari is actually longtime friends with Sena, a popular TV idol, and they've been tight ever since their middle school days.
  3. Characters.Last Word: It's revealed in the main story that the acclaimed Professor Chet Chatters is directly related to her.
  4. Characters.The Smeet Series: With Zim, who is a celebrity amongst the Sobrekt.
  5. Recap.Code Lyoko S 4 E 3: The Subdigitals' drummer, Chris, turns out to be Jim's nephew. Not a real band
  6. Recap.My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic S 5 E 24 The Mane Attraction: An In-Universe variant, with an extra helping of Pop-Cultural Osmosis Failure. Applejack was Childhood Friends with "the biggest pony pop star in Equestria", but she has trouble believing at first that they're the same pony.

    Other 
  1. Characters.Danganronpa 0 DISTRUST: States in his freetime that the only reason he became the Super Highschool Level Ballet Dancer was because of the fact that he performed a dance for the Prime Minister, and he became a sponser of the company Aiki worked for. Barely a history, unnamed celebrity
  2. Film.The Spy Who Dumped Me: Edward Snowden, the whistleblower who leaked NSA files in 2013, apparently had a crush on Morgan in summer camp. Morgan takes advantage of this and gets him to remotely hack the drive. Familiar with the work — they hired an actor to play him
  3. Recap.The Simpsons S 5 E 4 Rosebud: Mr. Burns is showed as being a sibling of George Burns. True according to the wiki but not played by George Burns
  4. Roleplay.Welcome To My World: . All of their adoptive parents are celebrities. Unclear
Indexes
  1. Celebrity Tropes
  2. Backstory Tropes
  3. QuoteSource.Live Action TV
  4. TropeDistinctions.D To F
    In History with Celebrity a character knows, but is not necessarily related to, a celebrity who appears on the show As Himself (or is mentioned as himself). It's the difference between Bill Murray playing Bob's old roommate Joe Schmo, and Bob's old roommate being Bill Murray.

Wick Check Stats:

  • 15/46 Correct Use: 32.6%
  • 22/46 Misuse: 47.8%
  • 4/46 Other: 8.7%
  • 4/46 Index: 8.7%

Lots of Schitt's Creek wicks contributed to that.

Because of the low number of wicks I have also included a sampling of on page examples that were not crosswicked. You can also see that both are used.

    On-Page Examples (Not Crosswicked) 

Celebrity Appears

  1. One Filler episode of Detective Conan depicted a young Aya Ueto making a promise with a young Shinichi to become professionals at their respective hobbies.note 
  2. Castle: As a best-selling crime novelist, Richard Castle is friends with several real-life members of the profession. Several episodes feature poker games held at his apartment featuring James Patterson, Stephen J. Cannell, and Michael Connelly. He's also apparently on a first-name basis with baseball great Joe Torre, and another episode sees him call Wes Craven for advice when he thinks he's the victim of a curse.
  3. I Dream of Jeannie. Jeannie was the one who formed The '60s singing group Boyce and Hart, after bringing together four young strangers and bestowing musical talent on them so Amanda Bellows could have a group perform at her charity bazaar.
  4. Although I Love Lucy had a number of Celebrity Star appearances - particularly during the Hollywood season arc - the only one who really truly had any in-universe connections with the cast was country star Tennessee Ernie Ford, who was a friend of the Ricardo family, and even stayed with them for quite sometime. Very much like a southerner, Ernie considered Lucy and Ricky to be his cousins.
  5. Just Shoot Me!: Mailroom worker Kevin is cousins with Ray Liotta. Jack is friends with George Lucas and has an ongoing rivalry with Donald Trump. Nina holds a grudge with Pamela Anderson for some unexplained past encounter. She also won't work with Mickey Rooney. ("Don't ask.")
  6. On The Larry Sanders Show, one episode reveals that Paula used to date Brett Butler. This creates an awkward situation when Butler is booked on the Show Within a Show.
  7. The Odd Couple eventually became grounds for weekly Celebrity Star appearances (mainly as attempts to keep ratings up), and many of them shared pasts with both Felix and/or Oscar, such as...

Celebrity Doesn't Appear

  1. Something's Gotta Give. Erica is impressed to learn that Harry was once engaged to Diane Sawyer a long time ago; he describes her as being, "This adorable little lanky girl from Kentucky with the greatest pair of legs. Never understood how she got a job where she never shows them."
  2. The Other Guys. At the end, Gamble says he lost his virginity to Heather Locklear.
  3. In You've Got Mail, Birdie apparently had a brief fling with Generalissimo Franco.
  4. Forrest Gump met Elvis Presley before "The King" became famous. He also met three American presidents — John F. Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, and Richard Nixon (and inadvertently blew the whistle on the whole "Watergate" thing).
  5. M*A*S*H. Charles had once dated Audrey Hepburn. After spending a great deal of time trying to top each other's tall tales, Hawkeye and B.J. try to call Charles out on his story, until he produces a photograph of him and Audrey having dinner together, much to their chagrin. She dead
  6. Parodied to an extreme in Monty Python's Flying Circus where a man gets a note from the BBC wanting him in a sketch, and his wife namedrops various neighbors who have gone on to greatness.
    Man: It's from the BBC. They want to know if I want to be in a sketch on telly.... I'm a plumber. I can't act.
    Wife: Oh, you never know till you try. Look at Mrs Brando's son next door. He was mending the fridge when they came and asked him to be The Wild One...I'll look after the cat. Goodness me, Mrs Newman's eldest never worried about the cat when he went off to do The Sweet Bird of Youth.

Other

  1. Agent Seeley Booth (and by extension, Parker and Booth and Brennan's children) on Bones is a relative of Abraham Lincoln assassin John Wilkes Booth. Presumably, he's descended from one of John Wilkes's siblings (like Junius Brutus, Jr., Edwin, or Asia), since J.W.B. himself had no direct descendants. Famous Ancestor
    Cam: (while they're investigating an assasination attempt and someone mentions John Wilkes Booth) Do not say that in front of Booth. He is related to Booth and he will shoot you.

Two proposed solutions, depending on whether you'd prefer to lump or split:

Edited by Synchronicity on Nov 24th 2020 at 9:12:37 AM

Apr Trope Report | New Work Page Help
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Dec 24th 2020 at 1:47:03 AM

Opening.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
LaundryPizza03 Maintenance? from Texas
Maintenance?
Dec 24th 2020 at 1:48:28 AM

I get the impression that the title is unclear. It's quite hard to square with the intended definition.

Edited by LaundryPizza03 on Dec 24th 2020 at 3:49:17 AM

NRLEP candidates * ColorTropesCleanup
Spark9 Gentleman Troper! from Castle Wulfenbach Relationship Status: Too sexy for my shirt
Gentleman Troper!
Dec 24th 2020 at 2:27:57 AM

[up]

Special trousers. Very heroic.
ArsThaumaturgis Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Dec 24th 2020 at 3:03:54 AM

I'm inclined to argue for expansion: after all, narratively speaking, how different are having a character know a celebrity and having a character know a celebrity—but also having the celebrity show up in person?

Indeed, I would argue that the celebrity showing up in person is already covered by Special Guest.

Thus the case in which this trope includes the celebrity showing up in person could be modelled as History with Celebrity + Special Guest.

My Games ~ My Twitch Streaming (mostly retro-games)
GastonRabbit A real nowhere man from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Dec 24th 2020 at 5:04:34 AM

Expand, and add a note in the description saying it can overlap with As Himself if the celebrity actually appears and is played by said celebrity (as opposed to saying it's required).

Edited by GastonRabbit on Dec 24th 2020 at 8:08:04 AM

"I wasn't really dead." —Paul McCartney
ccorb Don't make my eyes turn. from Whale Island Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
Don't make my eyes turn.
Dec 24th 2020 at 5:30:07 AM

Expand to drop the requirement for the celebrity to appear in person.

She/her or they/them
FernandoLemon Fan of Night in the Woods and Hamilton from Argentina
Synchronicity god-touched Relationship Status: I've got a total eclipse of the heart
god-touched
Dec 25th 2020 at 7:35:51 AM

I agree that the name is unclear for "justifying celebrity appearance with a personal connection to the cast". It is certainly more fit for the concept of "this character knows a celebrity, indicating a colorful past" (which is less an expansion than it is a redefinition, I guess, but that's splitting hairs). + 1 to redefine to that.

Apr Trope Report | New Work Page Help
Dec 25th 2020 at 1:01:24 PM

  • +1 to expasion/redefinition.

Edited by Snicka on Dec 25th 2020 at 10:01:45 AM

crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Dec 25th 2020 at 1:19:29 PM

Expand to "namedropping an in-universe celebrity".

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Synchronicity god-touched Relationship Status: I've got a total eclipse of the heart
god-touched
Dec 25th 2020 at 2:56:58 PM

Regarding another point I brought up in the OP: some examples are about fictional celebrities. Are we keeping this to real-world celebrities?

Apr Trope Report | New Work Page Help
crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Dec 25th 2020 at 5:59:15 PM

I'm not particularly interested in restricting to real-world celebrities.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
GastonRabbit A real nowhere man from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Dec 25th 2020 at 7:51:46 PM

I'm fine with allowing fictional celebrities in addition to real ones.

"I wasn't really dead." —Paul McCartney
ArsThaumaturgis Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Dec 26th 2020 at 12:20:55 AM

I see no reason to restrict the trope to real-world celebrities.

My Games ~ My Twitch Streaming (mostly retro-games)
Dec 26th 2020 at 10:02:27 AM

One more vote for including fictional celebrities.

Synchronicity god-touched Relationship Status: I've got a total eclipse of the heart
god-touched
Dec 30th 2020 at 10:26:50 AM

Crowner just to get consensus on this?

Apr Trope Report | New Work Page Help
FernandoLemon Fan of Night in the Woods and Hamilton from Argentina
Synchronicity god-touched Relationship Status: I've got a total eclipse of the heart
god-touched
Jan 11th 2021 at 3:45:31 PM

Bumping and hollering to hook the crowner.

Okay one final final point regarding the scope: my qualm with the 'fictional celebrities' examples in the wick check is not so much that they're fictional, but that they're also major characters. That is not the same as "gratuitous celebrity history namedropping".

Apr Trope Report | New Work Page Help
crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Jan 11th 2021 at 5:48:03 PM

not so much that they're fictional, but that they're also major characters. That is not the same as "gratuitous celebrity history namedropping".
I don't think that has parity. You could make the same complaint with real world celebrities, too. If being a major character is a problem, then it is a problem regardless if the celebrity is fictional or not.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Synchronicity god-touched Relationship Status: I've got a total eclipse of the heart
god-touched
Feb 7th 2021 at 1:09:08 PM

Oof, I forgot about this one.

Yes, my concern was that this should be limited to cases where the celeb is a very minor character at best.

Apr Trope Report | New Work Page Help
crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Feb 7th 2021 at 8:21:16 PM

The rare corner-case that I'd want allowed for a celebrity to be a main character and count for this is The Ghost and The Voice, which emphasizes their off-screen nature.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Synchronicity god-touched Relationship Status: I've got a total eclipse of the heart
god-touched
Feb 9th 2021 at 9:12:10 AM

Just realized I made a crowner that was never hooked. Adding that "minor character" stipulation and re-hollering.

Edited by Synchronicity on Feb 9th 2021 at 11:12:19 AM

Apr Trope Report | New Work Page Help
crazysamaritan MOD Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Feb 9th 2021 at 4:48:53 PM

Hooked!

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
GastonRabbit A real nowhere man from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Feb 11th 2021 at 10:04:24 AM

"Allow examples regarding fictional celebrities" and "Allow examples regarding fictional celebrities" have 12 yeas and one nay each; they're the only ones in the green that are within consensus range, but I'm not sure if they have enough votes.

"I wasn't really dead." —Paul McCartney

Page Action: History With Celebrity
31st Dec '20 7:03:53 AM
What would be the best way to fix the page?
At issue:
Options aren\'t mutually exclusive.

Total posts: 36
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