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According to its description, laconic, and its trope distinctions entry, History with Celebrity is supposed to be for when a celebrity appears As Himself in a work and this is justified by them knowing one of the characters. However, many wicks and onpage examples are actually troping something different: namedropping a real life celebrity the characters supposedly know to make their past seem cool and colorful, like this, and there's no As Himself appearance. Others are also troping "knows an in-universe celebrity" or "they do know this celebrity but he's played by someone else" which to me seems different. The draft launched without ironing but it seems to have been firmly about the former.
It has 46 wicks and I checked them all. I used two misuse categories: namedropping and "friends with someone famous in-universe". I also kinda cheated a bit by googling some of the celebrities mentioned to see if they were real or not :P
Lots of Schitt's Creek wicks contributed to that.
Because of the low number of wicks I have also included a sampling of on page examples that were not crosswicked. You can also see that both are used.
Two proposed solutions, depending on whether you'd prefer to lump or split:
Edited by Synchronicity on Nov 24th 2020 at 9:12:37 AM
I get the impression that the title is unclear. It's quite hard to square with the intended definition.
Edited by LaundryPizza03 on Dec 24th 2020 at 3:49:17 AM
I'm inclined to argue for expansion: after all, narratively speaking, how different are having a character know a celebrity and having a character know a celebrity—but also having the celebrity show up in person?
Indeed, I would argue that the celebrity showing up in person is already covered by Special Guest.
Thus the case in which this trope includes the celebrity showing up in person could be modelled as History with Celebrity + Special Guest.
Expand, and add a note in the description saying it can overlap with As Himself if the celebrity actually appears and is played by said celebrity (as opposed to saying it's required).
Edited by GastonRabbit on Dec 24th 2020 at 8:08:04 AM
Expand to drop the requirement for the celebrity to appear in person.
Expand + rename.
I agree that the name is unclear for "justifying celebrity appearance with a personal connection to the cast". It is certainly more fit for the concept of "this character knows a celebrity, indicating a colorful past" (which is less an expansion than it is a redefinition, I guess, but that's splitting hairs). + 1 to redefine to that.
Edited by Snicka on Dec 25th 2020 at 10:01:45 AM
Expand to "namedropping an in-universe celebrity".
Regarding another point I brought up in the OP: some examples are about fictional celebrities. Are we keeping this to real-world celebrities?
I'm not particularly interested in restricting to real-world celebrities.
I'm fine with allowing fictional celebrities in addition to real ones.
I see no reason to restrict the trope to real-world celebrities.
One more vote for including fictional celebrities.
Crowner just to get consensus on this?
Made one here.
Bumping and hollering to hook the crowner.
Okay one final final point regarding the scope: my qualm with the 'fictional celebrities' examples in the wick check is not so much that they're fictional, but that they're also major characters. That is not the same as "gratuitous celebrity history namedropping".
Oof, I forgot about this one.
Yes, my concern was that this should be limited to cases where the celeb is a very minor character at best.
The rare corner-case that I'd want allowed for a celebrity to be a main character and count for this is The Ghost and The Voice, which emphasizes their off-screen nature.
Just realized I made a crowner that was never hooked. Adding that "minor character" stipulation and re-hollering.
Edited by Synchronicity on Feb 9th 2021 at 11:12:19 AM
"Allow examples regarding fictional celebrities" and "Allow examples regarding fictional celebrities" have 12 yeas and one nay each; they're the only ones in the green that are within consensus range, but I'm not sure if they have enough votes.
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How well does it match the trope?