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(Edited Mar 28 2024, adding bullet about OTC and amending layout a little)
Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 11th 2024 at 3:20:25 AM
It’s not that people refuse to take Fighteer’s shit, I refuse to take Fighteer’s shit, people snark at Fighteer in petty ways designed to wind him up rather than actually openly say that they believe he’s wrong.
As for the apparent resonance, that’s making an awful lot of assumptions about Fighteer’s personal life that nobody here has enough information to make in an informed manner.
Seriously, I couldn’t even take more than a rough guess at Fighteer’s age or ethnicity and I’ve been hanging around OTC (where this stuff often comes up) for a decade now.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranI already hollered that post. That was clearly just trying to make a personal attack, not actually help the topic.
Also, let's keep the offsite stuff where it belongs. It's, you know, unrelated. That, and it basically is still importing drama. As it has nothing to do with this site nor would affect it generally, it shouldn't be brought up. If there's something on there of note to be brought up, that can be brought up to the Moderation in private in that case. And whether it's considered something that should be dealt with with this site's rules or not is based upon the information given.
Shadow?I'm pretty sure Fighteer has made enough comments on the forums about his age/ethnicity/etc that you could get some idea if you were in threads he was posting in for long enough, but honestly it really doesn't matter because he's basically right that nobody really cares about any of that insofar as what people are criticizing him for.
The inciting incident in question didn't really have anything to do directly with capitalism (insofar as a systemic problem anyway), so I don't think that's the core of the issue.
Edited by Draghinazzo on Sep 16th 2021 at 8:03:23 AM
It's basically a problem of singling out a user to shame them. That's pretty much what was happening, and for good reasons, is uncalled for.
Memers is fine because they weren't trying to do that. They were trying to have a legitimate conversation of the issue. It's just their first post I saw on it was less than well-worded. Later ones(not from Memers) got into it to the point of trying to derail the thread to make a user feel bad, which frankly, is not something that should be done on the forum or anywhere here. There's no world where that's appropriate on this site.
Edited by Irene on Sep 16th 2021 at 6:06:30 AM
Shadow?Might be double posting, but this thread is probably mowing fast enough that I won’t be.
It’s a problem of both.
You want my honest assessment of the recent incident? Fighteer saw an innocuous mention of Wo W players and blew up at it, Septimus tried to calm it down but Fighteer wouldn’t let it go and then Very Melon decide to try and needle Fighter with a thinly-veiled personal attack.
That’s a two person problem where two people deserve thumping for trying to make the topic about an individual rather than the actual subject matter.
I’ve made two hollars to that effect.
That’s not my actual solution idea. It’s just what I’m able to do personally. Though I honestly wouldn’t say I avoid Fighteer’s eggshells so much as I presume he’s enough of an adult to not care if I step on them, if he proves me wrong then that’s his problem.
My actual solution idea is for the mods to find (either amongst themselves or trusted users) someone who can mod Fighteer with the level of patience and understanding with which Fighteer often mods OTC.
My perspective is that Fighteer gets away with to much crap and so do the people who have grudges against him. The later group have been allowed to be that way because it would be unfair to punish them while leaving Fighteer unpunished.
My solutions is thumps, lots of thumps.
Sure and I could probably guess right. But to actually be certain enough to make socio-political observations? That probably requires actually seeking out that info, and I hope for all our sakes that everyone here has better shit to do with their time than to try and work out how old Fighteer is.
Edited by Silasw on Sep 16th 2021 at 12:11:19 PM
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranYeah, I was commenting more on it having a similar vibe, whence resonance.
Also...
This right here? No one fucking mentioned reflexively banning people for criticizing the site's leadership! Why bring that up?!? What the fuck!
Like... What is this? Is it a veiled threat? ("You know, I could justify banning everyone who criticizes me if I wanted.")
An attempt to seem magnanimous ("Look at how I'm not banning everyone who criticizes me, aren't I fair?").
Just really poor communication skills?
It's probably the last one. At least I hope it is.
Don't mind me, just sitting here not posting on OTC because I had an argument with Fighteer there and only of us got banned. (Man, I wasn't bitter about that anymore, I really wasn't. But seeing this kind of shit is reinvigorating my bitterness.)
Edited by Robrecht on Sep 16th 2021 at 1:16:46 PM
Angry gets shit done.I believe it’s a reference to how moderation used to be conducted when the site and the moderation teem were under constant attack and potential actual risk of harm.
You think moderation is rough now, Eddie made Fighteer look downright cuddly at times.
Edited by Silasw on Sep 16th 2021 at 12:13:36 PM
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranBy saying Fighteer needs a glorified babysitter to tell him right from wrong, you're admitting that all of this drama is his doing basically.
Your OTC ban was about a lot more than one argument with Fighteer, you know that. You fell into the exact same habit as so many other OTC posters of letting your emotions override your sense of rationality.
Yes if Fighteer was actually held to the same standards of other OTC posters he’d have earned at least one OTC ban by now, I’m not gonna deny that. But on the same level nobody is doing public psycho-analysis of you and implying your the embodiment of white-male privilege. So there are advantages to not being in his seat.
I’ll admit though that was a poor choice of words on my part. Fighteer’s critics have been granted much more leeway in this thread and in non-OTC threads then makes sense, because when Fighteer is very publicly part of the problem it looks very awakened for the other mods to punish other posters in a way they can’t punish Fighteer.
Part of why it’s awkward is because of the existence of this thread where people have called bullshit on the past double standard. Of which there are still people around subject to punishments from that double standard.
I mean yeah that kinda what “it takes two to tango” means. I’ve always said that Fighteer is part of the problem when this stuff comes up.
I’m not a mod, I don’t have the ability to thump him, all I can do is encourage the actual mods to do it.
Edited by Silasw on Sep 16th 2021 at 12:25:30 PM
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranMy apologies if my explanation of the offsite stuff was drama importation.
I also think that mods should just be able to moderate each other and themselves instead of having one of them moderate one specific mod like Irene suggested. I'm pretty sure that's the system in place already.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.In response to Silasw's post earlier I'll say my feelings openly:
I do not trust Fighteer.
He has proven time and again that, on certain topics, he is incapable of being, or at least staying, civil. The whole reason I was in the Sterling thread myself is that I have occasionally peeked in to see if Fighteer was causing problems. I did that because I did not trust him to do otherwise after the last big blowup. It taught me that people who misbehave without consequences so not stop misbehaving. That last time one thing I made a point to confirm was that Fighteer had agreed to watch his behavior going forward, so that we'd have something to point to when he inevitably failed to do so.
Indeed, between then and now there have been moments in that thread, most fresh in my mind a railing against anime, anime fans, and/ or anime gacha games. That didn't turn into anything because nobody really took the bait. This included disparaging remarks about waifu body pillows, an ad hominen he's employed multiple times in the WoW thread when challenged.
That thread is where I've had the most direct interaction with Fighteer and, even as I tend to agree with much of what he says in it, there have many times where I've seen him engage in behavior that would get anybody else thumped, at minimum. Whether it be disproportionate hostility towards civil and/or innocuous posts, throwing out the body pillow thing, or what have you, there have been multiple times I've called out or simply hollered posts that I felt were out of line.
In this conversation I've been reminded of an episode of Full House where middle and older sisters Stephanie and DJ keep getting in trouble over younger sister's Michelle's misbehavior until they point out the common factor in all of it was Michelle.
To that end, Fighteer is the primary reason problems crop to in the Sterling thread. Fighteer is the reason the TV Tropes forums treats the name Elon Musk the way the Harry Potter universe treats the name Voldemort, and unless I'm very much mistaken Fighteer is the most frequent, if not only mod who is brought up in this thread due to his individual personal behavior.
To paraphrase that Full House episode, the key word here is "Fighteer".
I don't have a real personal beef with Fighteer, and I'll confess watching him beat down the more belligerent in edit banned is a guilty pleasure, but that doesn't mean I have faith in him to adhere to Rule Zero when it comes to his personal bugbears.
I expect nothing to come of this instance, either, but since I had a post or two in this I wanted to be clear about my stance.
Do you have any idea how rough it used to be? Things were a lot more serious with bannings. Nowadays it's a lot more clean and reasonable.
Besides, he isn't making a threat. He's saying just what being a mod looks like. They are able to ban people on the spot if they wanted to. What he's saying is he clearly doesn't because that's not what it actually means to be a mod. It means you follow a set of rules and regulations on how to handle an action.
Not the best wording, but I can tell you from experience it has a lot of truth behind it. Many mods are removed for abuse of power. Fighteer has been lucky that the site really does need mods so while he's not remotely given impunity by any means, but he is being given a bit of special privilege. That's not deniable. But he isn't milking that anyway. He's saying how difficult it is to be a mod and how much thought goes into these actions. It's why he wants to improve this situation and try to get along. He keeps getting attacked even on this topic, so it's not exactly easy for him to trying to amend things either. I mean, when he's offering to leave the topic as a possibility, that's saying something.
Yeah, no. I read that post. Before and after the edit. There was no damn reason to even post that. It was bait, plain and simple, to ruffle another's feathers. I don't buy for a second it wasn't meant to shame someone. That was the entire intent, to create even more issues and single a person out.
It was obvious Fighteer felt singled out by Memers, though unintentional. Another user suddenly turning the topic towards another user with a bait-based question? That's not fooling anyone.
Edited by Irene on Sep 16th 2021 at 6:31:09 AM
Shadow?And this is where I think the other moderators need to really step up.
I know the holler system is shit, but if people are hollering Fighteer’s posts then that’s a holler that really need a response, if not a thump or public mod action then an explanation via PM as to why the holler wasn’t acted upon.
Because that’s something we could productively engage over here. A discussion not about Fighteer as a person but about why the other mods felt that X post (which happens to have been made by Fighteer) didn’t warrant and moderator activity.
If someone with better knowledge of the poster tagging system could flag in the relevant mods on that point I’d appreciate it. Because I feel that’s the key question.
Edited by Silasw on Sep 16th 2021 at 12:35:15 PM
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranIf we're going to deflect any criticism at the moderation team with "it used to be way worse" we might as well close this thread.
Edited by Gaon on Sep 16th 2021 at 4:33:00 AM
"All you Fascists bound to lose."You will note that in most of these cases, the issue arises when I challenge a commonly shared belief of people in a topic, a belief that is being traded back and forth and amplified without any attempt at self-reflection or criticism. I don't feel like itemizing all of these because it'll just import those same arguments into this thread, but disrupting them triggers anger.
It is my belief that most topics of conversation will devolve into this sort of state over time without fresh ideas coming in.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"That would be a helpful system for any holler, mod-related or not. Even if it was an animated notifier for whether the action was taken or not, with a short predefined message for why it wasn't.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.They also in most cases arise when you challenge such beliefs not in a calm good-faith manner but in a snarky “Well aren’t you lot a bunch of circle-jerkers” way.
The fact that you may be right to challenge self-sustaining non-evidance beliefs doesn’t mean you have to be an arse about it.
Sure, but that’s a long-term thing, we aren’t getting a new holler system any time soon.
Right now I’m thinking more a short-term fix to deal with this specific problem.
Edited by Silasw on Sep 16th 2021 at 12:38:59 PM
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranI'm not really sure what to say if Fighteer still thinks this is about his opinions in and of themselves and not how he chooses to voice them. I'm pretty sure that was covered at length the last time this was brought over and it doesn't seem like it had any effect.
I admit I'm bad at the tagging system too.
That said, nobody is devolving it to "it used to be worse". That's in response to someone accusing another of a threat who was only explaining how the moderation overall has to work things out(I won't deny the explanation was poorly done, though). It overall is a silly derail, though it is important to note moderation is a tiresome task and extremely stressful.
Right now the personal grudges are popping up a bit too much in this topic where it's getting extremely heated instead of keeping it to constructive criticism. It might be best to take a breath.
Shadow?That's what I did in the OTC threads that were all, in my opinion, pro-capitalist, lefty-bashing circle jerks and you and the other mods banned me for it.
I would like to see some equal treatment, please.
Edited by Robrecht on Sep 16th 2021 at 1:41:23 PM
Angry gets shit done.It is my belief that most topics of conversation will devolve into this sort of state over time without fresh ideas coming in.
Yes, the idea that all anime is hentai is a very new and original idea that certainly doesn't make one come off as racist.
![]()
Both of these
posts exemplify exactly the sort of bad-faith arguments and strawmanning that occur in these situations.
But fine. Robrecht, you are a Single-Issue Wonk with a line that never changes and never responds to any sort of criticism. You want to make OTC into your little soapbox and we are not having it. We are not a flock of sheep for you to market your anarchist ideology to (or whatever you choose to call it).
Very Melon, I never once implied that all anime is hentai.
Edited by Fighteer on Sep 16th 2021 at 7:46:17 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"It might be best another Mod step in. But more importantly, the angry posts and back and forth are not helping anyone's cases.
As I said, let's take a breath, please. We don't need more thumps in this thread because people won't cool down a bit.
Shadow?Strawman? How else is anyone reasonable supposed to take that claim when you're willing to imply that about Japanese games you haven't played yet? This isn't me looking for a fight, I'm just questing your claim of challenging "commonly shared beliefs" when you enter threads with hottakes like that.
Edited by VeryMelon on Sep 16th 2021 at 7:49:51 AM

Look, I'm not paranoid enough to assume that disagreements with me here are related to that SA and ED shit. We haven't had a raid from them in ages, and consequently there is no need to reflexively ban people for criticizing the site's leadership.
As for the rest, I am at a disadvantage as a moderator because any time I air out a grievance it is interpreted as an abuse of power. This is why I'm not participating more than I am here.
Edit: However, if that topic really wants to become an anti-capitalist circle-jerk, then yeah, I'm clearly not welcome and should leave, but then we go back to the "clique" thing.
Edited by Fighteer on Sep 16th 2021 at 6:56:28 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"