Note: The thread currently has a limit of one post every two hours for non-mod users. Currently, this is hard-coded by the admins, but there are plans to give mods the ability to toggle it without admin intervention. After mods are given the ability to do that, the time limit may be further reduced or removed entirely.
This thread is for discussing the following topics:
- Questions and clarifications about the site's rules and policies pertaining to wiki editing, forum posting, trope launching, and so on.
- If you have an idea for a thread on another part of the forums but aren't sure if creating it would be allowed, feel free to ask here.
This thread is not for any of the following:
- Reporting complaints or concerns about specific moderation decisions (e.g. suspensions and thumps). Report these directly to the admins via the contact form
. Selecting "The Staff" sends your message to the admins only, without making it visible to moderators.
- Queries about thumps applied to your own forum posts (reply to the relevant moderator via PM).
- Ban appeals (use the "Edit Banned" thread in this forum).
- Reporting problems or requesting moderator action in the wiki or forums (use Ask The Tropers or Hollersnote or specialized threads such as "Locked Pages").
- Queries about locked On-Topic Conversations (OTC) threads or banned discussion topics. OTC has its own moderation discussion thread here, and the latest statement on the locked US Politics thread and other banned OTC topics is here. Bluntly, when certain OTC threads and topics have repeatedly caused problems, we're not going to provide forum space to discuss them again until the moderation toolkit is equipped to handle those conversations.
- Cut List challenges and queries (they have their own thread here).
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- Crowner actions. Please use the holler function instead.
- Discussion about changing or implementing policies. Please use Wiki Talk for that. (Asking whether it's OK to make a specific thread is acceptable; using this thread in place of such a thread is not.)
- Asking about the whereabouts of inactive mods (or other inactive users) before they return, if they return at all. Use the Absent people thread for discussing inactive users.
Posts that use this thread in place of the sections listed in the bulleted list above are off-topic.
We're aware that the Edit Banned thread has a Non-Indicative Name, due to it also covering non-editing suspensions. We're not sure whether the name for that thread can even be edited without breaking the special coding that keeps posting restricted to mods and suspended users, so we're leaving it alone for now, because better safe than sorry.
(Edited Mar 28 2024, adding bullet about OTC and amending layout a little)
Edited by Mrph1 on Mar 29th 2024 at 10:55:20 AM
Redmess
Yeah, no need to turn this into a public trial, the mods can handle this perfectly well on their own.
Optimism is a duty.
Lost in Space
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
I took it here mostly in the panic phase when the meltdown was taking over ATT and no mod seemed to be online, so I figured taking it here would at least get it noticed. I apologize.
Edited by WarJay77 on Mar 6th 2021 at 11:49:53 AM
Current Project: The Team
A procrastination in of itself
Yeah there’s always the awkward issue that we can’t actually see if any moderators are online, if we could see what mods were online (or online and willing to engage in mod actions) we could simply PM them in the event of an emergency.
I understand however that implementing such a system would require some coding work to be done, which isn’t a quick thing.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
Would mods just edit their signatures to let people know when they're currently online or offline? That would probably be feasible if coding such an activity system is currently beyond the scope of the admins.
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
Yeah. The only thing I had to go off of was the time of their last forum posts. The situation was spiralling out of control so I reported it somewhere the mods would definitely see it.
What would a better option be? Next time something like this happens, what would you rather have me do?
Current Project: The Team
Redmess
I know our old phpBB boards list what mods are currently online, but I don't think this forum can do that.
Optimism is a duty.
A procrastination in of itself
Zetaboard forums used to have a similar function, it would list which members were currently online, with moderators highlighted, so you’d know who to PM in an emergency.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
Hi there.
^ The thing is though that knowing when the mods are available will give ammo to those seeking trouble. Ie "Mods are asleep, post porn everywhere." Some forums do set their staff to not appear in an online list as a measure to discourage rule breakers.
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
Well, that's another issue; at the time, none of the mods seemed to be online. It took at least an hour for Berrenta to show up, and that was after most of the meltdown. So even if we knew for a fact who was on and who wasn't, the fact that none of them were (apparently) around at the time meant that it still wouldn't have made a difference.
Current Project: The Team
True. If the mods aren't online, then it doesn't matter that you know they're not online.
Also, being online isn't the same as being available right away.
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
Right. So mods, please, tell us: If a troper is having a melt-down somewhere and no mods are available at the time to help, how would you prefer we handle it?
Current Project: The Team
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
That's exactly it. I would have counted as "online", but I had started a phone call just before the blowup and was working on a different project. By the time I came back to this site, the main action had been taken and I was cleaning up some of the pieces before going to bed.
This ties back into the moderation team is extremely small compared to what it should be for the site. I used to just say "is small", but after seeing more of the tools/discussions, "is extremely small". Hollers are effective and ATT is regularly patrolled. Much like the Scottish draft, the right thing to do for most people may be to do nothing directly about the subject (while sending private hollers to the moderation team).
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Lost in Space
We need a way to Holler off of Ask The Tropers. It's something we'll bring up to the devs. More significantly, we need a system of ticketing where a user can be made aware that their issue has been seen and is under review.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
A procrastination in of itself
Yeah, I’ve bought up the lack of feedback on forum hollers before. Often the only way I realise what mod action has been taken on a holler I made is because I see the offender post in the edit-banned thread. Other times I’m left wondering if the thing I hollared was judged not worthy of action, if it was judged that the situation was resolved itself or if a mod had simply not gotten round to seeing the holler yet.
"And the Bunny nails it!" ~ Gabrael "If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we." ~ Cyran
No, we don't need a holler button on Ask The Tropers. If moderators aren't following the place as a matter of course then it's already broken. If nobody is online it won't help anyway and there are more important development requests for the limited dev time than that.
What we need is a way to discourage people from junking up queries with barely relevant commentary - up to installing thumping functionality and banning tropers who play peanut gallery. And to make it clear that turning a query into a confrontation involving the reported troper isn't a good move. It goes wrong far too frequently.
Speaking of online, incidentally, remember that moderation is a part time job. Even if someone is active - and "logged in" does not always mean "active" - it doesn't mean they are up for handling any particular situation at the moment.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Siiiiiiiiiiiip
I do like the ticket idea. I know Smashboards has used one for ages(I've found it useful there to help explain details to the user I warned/infracted) or when somebody fixes up a report I sent, etc.
I got no comments on the idea of hollering ATT, though. I wouldn't mind if there was a way to make it easier for a mod to notice, but as noted earlier, the mod team is small so it might not do much anyway.
...It's weird having so many websites and no way to properly display now, lol.
Beeaking up the hollers system so that the various reports are not dumped all in the same thread would be wonderful. Part of the problem with the system is that it's hard to get feedback on things.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
FWIW, nobody invited Bean to the thread, they just found it. I'm wondering if I should've used a private query for it, but a few rude comments on the TLP didn't feel worthy of that much privacy or mod attention.
Hindsight is a bitch.
Current Project: The Team
Redmess
Yeah, more feedback on hollers would be nice. One forum I was on had a public thread that basically fulfilled the same function as hollers, and it allowed users to be heard and to see the decision making. But that probably would not work as well on a busy forum like this.
Optimism is a duty.
Industrious Incisors
I can just imagine if the kind of person to attract a lot of hollers could see the hollers they received...
SoundCloud
Redmess
In both cases they were pretty tight knit communities, though, and I've never seen any problems with it there. But again, that could be different on a big website like this that attracts much more diverse traffic.
Optimism is a duty.
sold my car for candy
Wouldn't it be a good idea to automatically temporarily lock ATT threads if they get more than 40 replies and wait for a mod to unlock them? Or would this encourage problematic tropers to just spawn more threads?
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Dogpiling should be explicitly prohibited. But I feel like it would be good for mods to drop by in an ATT thread after 40+ replies either way. One of the problems with that thread yesterday was that the reply frequency was so high that it was impossible to read the prior replies before posting. And in the end it just evolved to cyclic replies by people appealing to others to stop replying. I think an automatic lock could stop that.
Edited by Sirena on Mar 6th 2021 at 12:19:31 PM
I feel like that would encourage holler abuse and dogpiling.
Edited by AlleyOop on Mar 6th 2021 at 6:10:54 AM
Guys, check the header again. This thread is not for reports. Use hollers for that.