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(Edited Mar 28 2024, adding bullet about OTC and amending layout a little)
Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 11th 2024 at 3:20:25 AM
I asked the other mods if they can provide input. I'm currently sick again and too worn out to handle more forum moderation today, and I might be doing less mod work in general for a while.
(I did unthump your first post regarding asking about whether there's a rule about that and unthumped the posts that mistakenly thought the Wall of Text cleanup thread was being referred to; now just posts after those are still thumped.)
Edit: I told the other mods that they can unthump the posts I thumped earlier if they think the previously mentioned clarity concerns with the header meant the matter was unclear. I'm going to hold off on further thumping and unthumping in this thread for now for reasons I went over earlier in this post.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 16th 2023 at 4:44:00 AM
I got a rock for Halloween.OK, I'm going to go back on what I said about thumping and unthumping a bit (at least as a stopgap) and just unthump every post except the one directly before Synchronicity's mod post (since I didn't thump that one) pending a resolution to the clarity issues.
Edit: Done.
Edit: Unthumped Gate Star X's post as well because it was another post simply asking whether a specific type of discussion was acceptable.
Edit: Oh, right, and I'm still deferring to the other mods on whether creating the previously mentioned thread is acceptable since I'm not currently sure.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 16th 2023 at 5:26:16 AM
I got a rock for Halloween.I think that policy changes generally need dedicated threads not one megathread.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanYou can bring that question over to the No New Stock Phrases Wiki Talk thread you just linked above. We don't do general policy discussions here.
Edited by MacronNotes on Mar 19th 2023 at 1:23:47 PM
Macron's notesI believe my cut request for LightNovel.Youjo Senki was declined, which I would think would be due to inbound count, but Literature.Youjo Senki exists to catch them. Declined cut reason says "Cross-title redirect"? Granted, this might've been declined before I made that Literature/ redirect (only saw that discussion post just now), but I'm asking here to be certain if it's fine to be cut (perhaps with a cut reason clarifying that the inbounds are caught by the Literature/ redirect).
Thank you!
Edited by BlackFaithStar on Apr 2nd 2023 at 11:57:08 PM
When you're alone I'm reaching out to let you know that you're far from strangers, like the savior
Since there's a Literature/ redirect, I cut the LightNovel/ redirect.
I have to bring up Macron's moderating in the Social Media thread. I feel that they have been overstepping with the thumps and shutting down a lot of discussions on Elon Musk. They've justified the thumps by arguing that it's not relevant to social media, but they have thumped:
- Discussions about how Musk's confronting and bullying behavior on social media including examples of such behavior, demonstrating it's not a recent occurrence
- Elon Musk's bigotry towards trans people, relevant because of how he has changed and influenced Twitter's policies
- The financial stability of Musk's other products, which is relevant in that Elon has been paying off the Twitter loan
This is coming off like the moderation team doesn't want anyone to discuss Elon Musk as all, which is true because numerous mods have up and said they don't want him talked about over the last few years and been shutting down talk for years. It wasn't helped by Fighteer doing what he could to shut down any negative talk of Musk wherever he could.
To compare this to another controversial figure, imagine if a moderator decreed that it was off topic to talk about Donald Trump's business dealings, his past comments of bigotry, paying off people with campaign funds because that technically wasn't him acting as President.
Like, I can understand the general sentiment of blocking talk that's just trashing someone to trash someone, but it feels like Elon Musk is subjected to a standard that literally no one in the US General Politics thread discussions is, if you applied this standard of thumps to that thread 50% of the thread would be consistently red text. It is at the point where I do feel the moderation is overzealous and kills legitimate on-topic conversations, which is damaging a thread that to be perfectly honest has been quite well behaved and civil. There should be a line somewhere, but it's been implemented unevenly that has caught up discussions that do relate to social media.
Since I was involved in the most recent round, I'd like to also give my two cents on the matter.
I understand that relevance is not something that can always have a solid line drawn on it. It's always going to have some element of personal judgement coming from the moderator on task. Still, I think the reason that discussions of Twitter and Tesla so often veer into (what are treated as) off-topic discussions of a person is because Musk, more than any other controversial figure at the moment, has intentionally and deeply intertwined himself with the handling, heading, and practices of his companies. He's made himself synonymous with Tesla and Twitter, for better and for worse.
As Shaoken has pointed out, Musk has been making headway in getting Twitter to reflect his personal politics and his personal finances; in essence, it's impossible to discuss, say, the current rise of anti-LGBT and particularly transphobic rhetoric on Twitter without identifying that the cause, and intended model for Twitter's policies, is Musk's personal beliefs. Same with talking about Tesla having stock troubles when those directly impact how desperate Musk is to raise money off of Twitter.
There's a rule on the Social Media thread sticky that Public Figure X saying something dumb on social media is not news; I think that rule can and has to be flexible when the public figure is the one serving as a lodestar for Twitter's content policies and general political bent.
I'm not going to lie here, I think Musk is odious and I enjoy mocking him on the forum. Anyone who's been in OTC at all knows that. So it might be that my words don't carry much weight. It's really just that, given how deeply he's embedded himself in Twitter as a whole, it would be foolish to act as though the company's endorsements of hate aren't coming from a specific source that's broadcasting his personal views hourly.
Edited by RedSavant on Apr 4th 2023 at 2:09:16 AM
It's been fun.Honestly I fel the moderation on On Topic is a touch draconian where talking about the context of something without adding an extra clause explaining why it also connects to the last post you made is liable to get thumped.
I didn't put this on the Cut List, but I found YMMV.Kileak in there with the reason "Only entry has a link back to the main page in place of the trope name". Dug around for a bit and it turns out that it's supposed to be a Complete Monster entry (Video Games: G to K), but it was copied word for word. I've mended it, so I'd like to request it not to be cut.
When you're alone I'm reaching out to let you know that you're far from strangers, like the saviorI also had brought up Tesla on Social Media specifically because they knew how to work around Elon, while Twitter the one in charge with all the power is Elon with nobody to reign him in, so his worst decisions consecutively keep being shown in how he handles the platform.
Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.I think some moderation is needed, because Musk is such a huge presence right now that the temptation is large to turn threads he is relevant to into Musk bashing threads, and cathartic as that may be, that's not what those threads are for.
And yes, I absolutely think the same standard should apply to politician bashing. So by all means, apply it to the politics threads as well.
Hope shines brightest in the darkest timesIf they have to be draconian they should be consistently draconian, sure, but I'd rather they not be draconian...
Edited by Perseus on Apr 4th 2023 at 8:28:26 PM
In response to Perseus' quote on the Social Media thread:
It does, but if we delve into everything Musk does, this will just be the Elon Musk thread (which I should note is against the rules).
I agree the mods shouldn't be draconian, but I also think we should draw a line somewhere. If we don't want to draw a line, that implicitly means we have to change how OTC works, because how we talk about Musk (and some others, like Trump) is straining how we want OTC to function.
Hope shines brightest in the darkest timesDraw a line somewhere, of course. Thumping the entire bloody thread every time it's deemed to have veered marginally off course for a handful of posts ain't it, chief.
Edited by Perseus on Apr 4th 2023 at 8:40:13 PM
He only thumped three posts, and while I haven't read them, that doesn't seem all that draconian. He left up a bunch of other posts about Musk. Or were there more thumps that have been reverted?
Edited by Redmess on Apr 4th 2023 at 12:41:03 PM
Hope shines brightest in the darkest timesFor context, this is what Macron posted about the thumps:
If it's just "Musk does stupid/evil thing" by itself it shouldn't be brought up. If it's something involving Twitter in a larger context and the focus is primarily on the effects of said action and not Musk, then it's fine.
A conversation can't proceed naturally if the moment you utter anything that's judged Insufficiently Relevant™ you get the hammer.
It's an unreasonably harsh standard that's applied extremely inconsistently, and no, the answer to that is not to consistently be unreasonably harsh.
If a thread actually devolves into nothing but off-topic bashing that's one thing but, like... it didn't. Not really. People were still talking about the thing Musk did with Twitter that started it in the first place.
Edited by Perseus on Apr 4th 2023 at 8:55:06 PM
*She
The only reason I get involved in OTC matters to begin with is because of hollers and the fact that only 1-2 of us mod (not actively)it now. Everytime the thread would derail, they would be reports about it and if I see a report I think I can handle I try to best I can to resolve the situation. I tried to thump the post the seemed the most off base. It was late and I might have thumped something that could have been left alone but I'm not in the mood to re-evaluate the situation so I'll do it later today.
As far as how US Politics handles politician bashing, yes maybe the same modding could apply to that area but I don't remember seeing many hollers on that and that follow that thread.
Regarding "draconian" modding that's not what I am trying to aim for at all. I try mod what's being reported the best I can as I said before. If I had mistakes or if someone wants appeal a thump I am willing to hear it out. In any case, OTC modding was never something I wanted to do and it's not something I am particularly good at; I only do it out of necessity. I have been thinking about leaving that area of modding completely and scale back on forum moderation for a while now so I think Ill do that now
Edited by MacronNotes on Apr 4th 2023 at 7:01:20 AM
Macron's notesOops, I'm sorry, Macron.
Hope shines brightest in the darkest timesWe’ve had one or two pages where 90% of the posts were thumped.

Clarified the list of permitted topics in the thread a bit after there were concerns that it was unclear in another thread. I asked for feedback from the other mods regarding ways to further clarify it, but not too many members of the team are online right now, so I'm not sure if I can add much more right now.
I got a rock for Halloween.