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Note: The thread currently has a limit of one post every two hours for non-mod users. Currently, this is hard-coded by the admins, but there are plans to give mods the ability to toggle it without admin intervention. After mods are given the ability to do that, the time limit may be further reduced or removed entirely.


This thread is for discussing the following topics:

  • Questions and clarifications about the site's rules and policies pertaining to wiki editing, forum posting, trope launching, and so on.
  • If you have an idea for a thread on another part of the forums but aren't sure if creating it would be allowed, feel free to ask here.

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  • Reporting complaints or concerns about specific moderation decisions (e.g. suspensions and thumps). Report these directly to the admins via the contact form. Selecting "The Staff" sends your message to the admins only, without making it visible to moderators.
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  • Crowner actions. Please use the holler function instead.
  • Discussion about changing or implementing policies. Please use Wiki Talk for that. (Asking whether it's OK to make a specific thread is acceptable; using this thread in place of such a thread is not.)
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Posts that use this thread in place of the sections listed in the bulleted list above are off-topic.
We're aware that the Edit Banned thread has a Non-Indicative Name, due to it also covering non-editing suspensions. We're not sure whether the name for that thread can even be edited without breaking the special coding that keeps posting restricted to mods and suspended users, so we're leaving it alone for now, because better safe than sorry.
(Edited Mar 28 2024, adding bullet about OTC and amending layout a little)

Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 11th 2024 at 3:20:25 AM

Irene (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
#7801: Jan 10th 2023 at 9:43:05 PM

Thanks for clearing that up, Willbyr. Thank you for the post, Synchro.

Shadow?
TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#7802: Jan 10th 2023 at 9:46:35 PM

Macron, thank you for setting down the line.

megagutsman Maverick Hunter. from Dragon Turtle MK.1. (Seven Years' War) Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Maverick Hunter.
#7803: Jan 10th 2023 at 10:00:16 PM

Synchro, Willbyr, thank you for talking with us and helping us come to an agreement that both sides like.

GnomeTitan Oversized Garden Ornament Since: Aug, 2013 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Oversized Garden Ornament
#7804: Jan 10th 2023 at 11:44:17 PM

I've deliberately stayed out of the discussion because I didn't have much to add, but I think the new code of conduct looks good.

Acebrock He/Him from So-Cal Since: Dec, 2009 Relationship Status: My elf kissing days are over
He/Him
#7805: Jan 10th 2023 at 11:58:33 PM

Since some people brought up what they'd like to see in an active admin, I'll offer my own (late) two cents. (C'mon I was busy today)

One of the things I liked about the Fast Eddie era was that when things were going too far, he would put his foot down, hard. A great example of that comes from the whole Japanese-named trope pages controversy in 2011. He decided that there were far too many pages that had non-english names (mostly Japanese, due to the prevalence of anime fans) and, because there were loud portions of the userbase who resisted the idea of less insular names (and many others were just apathetic), he basically set some new hard and fast rules on that front (The key thread from that time), forcing new trope names to be in understandable English (and not use the word Loli for the most part) and getting several Japanese named tropes renamed (for example, Nakama, Kuudere, Yangire, and not Japanese named, but tied to said rule changes, The Mario and The Libby). Now there was lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth over this, but the site improved and became less insular because he was willing to put his foot down.

Was he always right? Hell no, but there were times when he said that the usual way of doing things was just not going to work anymore and the site benefitted greatly when he decided to make them change. I think an admin who is willing to give things a big kick in the pants when things aren't working but no one who's involved wants to change it would be a big help to have again.

My troper wall
Ordeaux26 Since: May, 2019 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#7806: Jan 11th 2023 at 12:06:23 AM

Yeah, that is something that often has to end up happening on other wikis. When something that needs to be done can't easily be done that is when the person with the higher authority is able to "put their foot down" as it's often put. That becomes a lot harder to do on TV Tropes though when there is only one moderator position and the admins with the higher position are barely active.

Obviously community consensus and such is important but there are cases where getting that is not as easy as you would think.

RainehDaze Nero Fangirl (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Nero Fangirl
#7807: Jan 11th 2023 at 12:10:59 AM

As I have previously noted about that particular time period, though, it also came with getting banned for arguing with him about one of the tropes that nobody actually could agree on renaming (tsundere, obviously). Although, he did relent in the end as nobody could work out an alternative and it's hardly a niche import (then or now), so credit for that.

Anyway, that level of involvement in trope disputes really doesn't feel like something the wiki has any need for admin intervention on, now—things have gotten standardised way more over the past decade, large-scale projects have been implemented multiple times, and previous efforts towards such things mean that crowners and notifications could cover similar scenarios.

And we definitely don't need another admin who's willing to get extremely personal and vindictive in bouncing IPs to the point of making sure a custom message was displayed instead of the site itself. That is not something to repeat (and why I stayed off the forums entirely for a good few years, despite not being banned myself).

GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#7808: Jan 11th 2023 at 4:20:17 AM

Since the subject of mod statements being made as a group was previously discussed, I'm pretty sure significantly more of us were actually involved with the most recent mod statement than with the previous one, so I'm glad it went well. (I was asleep when it was posted, so I don't know who was online at the time, but I approved of it when it was still being drafted, and I approved of putting the code of conduct in the header of this thread.)

Edit: Appended Administrivia.Know The Staff with this line:

If you have concerns regarding the site's moderation, please use this forum thread, which also lists the mod team's code of conduct.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jan 11th 2023 at 6:55:01 AM

I got a rock for Halloween.
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#7809: Jan 11th 2023 at 4:51:31 AM

[up] You've missed a zero in the link.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
ANonagon9 (Experienced, Not Yet Jaded) Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
#7811: Jan 11th 2023 at 4:55:10 AM

Code of conduct looks good to me!

themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#7812: Jan 11th 2023 at 5:06:08 AM

Big [awesome][awesome][awesome] to the Code of Conduct!

And I will also say that I do legitimately appreciate the mods work in general, and I will also thank Septimus in particular for his stellar wiki work. This new Code of Conduct looks good, and hopefully this will help with any future problems down the line.

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#7813: Jan 11th 2023 at 5:13:05 AM

Added this to the draft of next month's Trope Report's Forumwatch section:

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jan 11th 2023 at 7:13:21 AM

I got a rock for Halloween.
megagutsman Maverick Hunter. from Dragon Turtle MK.1. (Seven Years' War) Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Maverick Hunter.
#7814: Jan 11th 2023 at 5:24:12 AM

So, to alleviate the tense atmosphere of the last few weeks, I will make what I think is a harmless question: Should any of the "Fighteer Debacle" go in the TV Tropes timeline?.

REV6Pilot Powered Armor feet go 'clomp clomp' from Live from the Spire Since: Jan, 2011 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
Powered Armor feet go 'clomp clomp'
#7815: Jan 11th 2023 at 5:26:22 AM

[up] I think it'd be better as a "moderator conduct debacle". The Fighteer aspect was only a part of this whole event.

[down] Are there plans for a timeline cleanup thread?

Edited by REV6Pilot on Jan 11th 2023 at 5:38:58 AM

GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#7816: Jan 11th 2023 at 5:30:08 AM

I'd rather not add that, but adding the code of conduct being written should be fine. I've already mentioned that I think the timeline has a lot of unnecessary entries for minor events (not saying this is a minor event, but it's still not a unique one aside from the fact that action was taken this time).

Edit: For clarification, none of this is a mod statement. These are just my own thoughts on the timeline (especially since I've mentioned cleaning up the timeline before this discussion started, and possibly before I was a mod).

Edit: Added this:

Further changes can be made if necessary.

Edit: Accidentally put "mod team" when I meant to put "the mod team", so further changes were necessary.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jan 11th 2023 at 8:24:23 AM

I got a rock for Halloween.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#7817: Jan 11th 2023 at 5:38:52 AM

As for as how to discipline other moderators on the forum (beyond thumps) goes, we have decided to bar mods who break our mod conduct rules from interacting with certain areas of the site. These moderators would be required to appeal to the edit banned thread.

I'm very happy to see this part in particular. As much as some people read the edit banned thread for fun and entertainment, it being public is also good for several reasons.

  • It helps educate non-banned tropers what not to do to get banned.

  • It helps educate non-banned tropers on what to do if they do get suspended, as well as what the proper way to hande it is.

  • It's embarrassing, which is its own form of punishment. Having to swallow your pride and apologize for misdeeds in public view of everyone is a good deterrent by itself, and as a result, the actual punishments can be more lenient and focus can be placed more on the rehabilitation process (which I think they've done a good job of).

I think it's generally a good system, and I'm glad future incidents with mods will be subjected to the same process with the same transparency. If it were up to me, Fighteer would have to go through this process when he returns, but that's just my opinion.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jan 11th 2023 at 6:41:49 AM

GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#7818: Jan 11th 2023 at 5:47:10 AM

Are there plans for a timeline cleanup thread?

If there are, I'm not aware of them. I think Short-Term Projects would be the place to take it if someone makes one, though.

I got a rock for Halloween.
AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#7819: Jan 11th 2023 at 5:55:14 AM

Wow. I didnt know it was Fast Eddie who put his foot down and killed the Token Loli name. My dear friend Gunheart was the one who made the thread and got it renamed. But I didnt know Fast Eddie killed it.

Also The apologies from the mod team are awesome. They are amazing.

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#7820: Jan 11th 2023 at 5:58:02 AM

On the other hand, he deleted the page to the actual book Lolita at one point due to completely failing to understand the work. That's the problem with running things according to one person's whims and limited knowledge base.

Eddie wasn't stupid, but he was proudly ignorant on multiple topics, and had no desire to learn. We're well better off without him

Edited by Lightysnake on Jan 11th 2023 at 6:00:36 AM

AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#7821: Jan 11th 2023 at 6:00:01 AM

Oh god I remember that lol. He certainly was interesting.

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#7822: Jan 11th 2023 at 6:00:51 AM

As for as how to discipline other moderators on the forum (beyond thumps) goes, we have decided to bar mods who break our mod conduct rules from interacting with certain areas of the site. These moderators would be required to appeal to the edit banned thread.
Maybe it should be appended to the pinned code of conduct for reference as well? Also related to this question.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#7823: Jan 11th 2023 at 6:40:57 AM

Probably but it needs to be rewritten. Maybe a line after "Infractions of any of the above can and should be reported, whether by holler, ATT topic, or PM."

"Mods who break code may be subject to thumps, suspensions, or a demotion depending on the severity. Suspensions can be appealed via the edit banned thread."

I should probably not that suspensions would work differently on mods than users since mods can easily (un)suspend themselves so I guess this would be more based on self discipline. I think people being aware that you aren't allowed to interact with x part of the site would be enough of a deterrent.

EDIT: Added suggested sentence.

Edited by MacronNotes on Jan 11th 2023 at 12:09:50 PM

Macron's notes
Lightysnake Since: May, 2010
#7824: Jan 11th 2023 at 6:49:59 AM

I think that's pretty solid. Would maybe just say that recurring frequency being an issue as well. But it's good we have this!

GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#7825: Jan 11th 2023 at 7:20:28 AM

[up][up]I think that sounds fine.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jan 11th 2023 at 9:20:39 AM

I got a rock for Halloween.

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