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Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 11th 2024 at 3:20:25 AM
That post actually runs afoul of the don't bring another sites status on a character here? I remember it. It wasn't because he was from villains wiki.
Edited by miraculous on Dec 22nd 2022 at 9:39:01 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Mir: The reasons the other troper was suspended may have been valid, but I stand by my statement that the suspension was not addressed as professionally as it could have.
In the response to the appeal, Fighteer took an implied potshot at the site in question, which prompted me to send a PM about productive contributors on April 11th.
I am giving other mods explicit permission to access my April 11th inbox so they can see the exchange.
Exactly.
Anyways, I've said my piece.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Dec 22nd 2022 at 12:54:31 PM
I think the point is less why the user was thumped and more Fighteer's usual lack of tact in responding to it. It's another case of his bias and needless hostility crawling into his work on the Edit Banned thread, and we can cite a lot of instances of rudeness in that thread, regardless of whether or not the banned users were being curt in turn.
I’ve not yet managed to catch up on this 20+ page discussion; I hope I’ll be able to sort through it in the next day or two and respond thoughtfully and in detail.
However, on the off-chance that mods come to a decision before I can do so, I would like to contribute the following:
Mods have extensive powers to guide discussion and limit those allowed to participate in discussion. As such, mods should be held to the same standards as other users, if not higher. As others in this thread have said, Fighteer has a long history of rude behavior, picking fights, and derailing threads, all patterns of behavior which have resulted in other users being banned.
I hope the mod team appreciates the gravity of this situation and the frustration of users who have seen these issues brought up before without long term consequences or improvement.
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Right. Likewise Tobias being thumped for flagrantly invoking Godwin's Law in the MCU thread was justified, but Fighteer being the one to do it when he was one of the people Tobias was arguing with was grotesquely unprofessional.
Edited by AlleyOop on Dec 22nd 2022 at 1:08:29 PM
To add a bit more to what I said previously:
I think multiple people, including myself, have said that they don't necessarily want Fighteer to lose his mod status or anything too dramatic, they just want the pattern of behavior to stop. I still genuinely mean that. But the thing is, what is it going to take for it to stop?
People have been trying to reach Fighteer in good faith about the actual core of his issues (the defensiveness, the irrationality, the jumping to bad faith, the condescension about things he personally doesn't like for no real justifiable reason, etc) and why he needs to stop, for a long time. I think I even tried to do as much myself. But it's like that old proverb about how you can't teach an old dog new tricks, it's like it just goes in one ear and out the other, or it just gets blown off entirely as him not being allowed to have opinions. Fighteer is, pardon my bluntness, a grown-ass man. He's more than capable enough to consider his own actions, the effects they have on other people, and if he wants to change.
It's been a long time since this has been a problem, he's been told it's a problem, and he has not changed, either because he does not want to, or because he cannot. If there is some other way that would be nice and I genuinely hope for that, but I don't blame people like Lightysnake for thinking he just isn't going to change unless he just straight up loses his status.
Edited by Draghinazzo on Dec 22nd 2022 at 3:26:51 PM
Yeah, I tried to get through to him about some of his behaviour and I maybe got him to occasionally mention the distinction between his own position and the official position he's regurgitating? I think the only reason I got through to him on that was because it was super blatantly obvious at the time and in that topic that everyone assumed he was stating his opinion when he, I think, actually didn't agree with what he was saying.
But mostly, I just got back "well, why should I have to define my position by the majority consensus?" which is a bizarre way to defend a thing where he's pretty definitively factually wrong.
Edited by Zendervai on Dec 22nd 2022 at 1:14:31 PM
As the last few years have shown us, he’s simply not going to stop unless his privileges are revoked outright.
I think I will resume offering my thoughts. A couple things to consider:
- I'm honestly surprised a mandatory vacation is on the table at all. I've never seen that happen before, to any other mod. Admittedly I've only been here since 2019/active here since 2020, but I've read through old threads and so on and I have never heard of this happening before in TV Tropes history. Especially since Fighteer's been modding since 2010.
- One other thought—some here were talking about being afraid Fighteer would ban them for expressing criticism. I don't doubt that that could happen, and I've read the evidence, but if it was really that bad, wouldn't several people in this thread have already been banned then? If we truly couldn't speak ill of Fighteer at all then would this thread have even happened?
I could also be dead wrong, and I will accept that if so.
EDIT: Rewording a bit
Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Dec 22nd 2022 at 1:38:21 PM
Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wallsigh
Look, there's some stuff I could say, could bring up, past disputes and experiences with Fighteer, but I don't necessarily want to dogpile on. So, I'll leave those personal anecdotes aside for now, to focus on the meat of the issue.
Look. I've tried to be if not kind, then at the very least respectful. Having said this, I know from experience he's acted unprofessional if not to me than certainly to friends. Off the top of my head there was one incident with wisewillow that he used moderation tools to essentially suppress criticism.
Fighteer, if you're reading this, please believe me when I say that I don't mean you ill will on a personal level. But from the sound of this thread you've kept repeating the same mistakes, and that is not acceptable.
So, consider this my appeal. You can't keep doing this. Please, either take a step back if you're getting worked up about these things or if you can't do that, then resign. I can't force you, none of us can really force you, but this? All of this? Its unproductive, unprofessional, and honestly unacceptable.
-Azure
The awful things he says and does are burned into our cultural consciousness like a CRT display left on the same picture too long. -FighteerI’m a bit more hopeful than others, as I think the way users have expressed the issues people have with Fighteer’s behaviour has been different this time, as has the number of people chiming in.
I’d remind people that this all started because of an incident that did result in Fighteer getting thumped, something that a year ago a number of us would have sworn the other mods would never do.
So I’m hopeful that the points raised here will stick more than previously, both with the mod team as a collective and with Fighteer personally.
“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ CyranHe had a post deleted. That’s all. That’s not an encouraging sign, that’s the bare minimum.
Fighteer refuses to address any of this, either. Not any sort of contrition.
Edited by Lightysnake on Dec 22nd 2022 at 10:33:31 AM
I don't think he should be in this thread either way. It makes it weird at best, and with how he behaved when he did show up, he definitely shouldn't be in this conversation.
I would also like a clarification of the precise policies under which moderators are allowed to peek into posters' P Ms. I am perfectly willing to give them up if asked, but I would like to know exactly to what degree I am being surveiled.
Regardless of what is done with Fighteer, I think it would be incredibly helpful to everyone in general to know exactly what those boundaries look like as it has been a thing bothering me and countless others for a long time and independently of him.
Edited by AlleyOop on Dec 22nd 2022 at 1:51:49 PM
Alley Oop PM'ed me to weigh in. I read the first several pages but not the whole discussion.
I (apparently luckily) have never really posted in or read the Electric Car and Space X threads more than once or twice, but I have found Fighteer's Single-Issue Wonk defensiveness towards Elon Musk to be striking and at odds with what seem to be generally progressive/anti-bigotry views.
I actually had planned to PM Fighteer to inquire if he had changed his viewpoint towards Musk at all, because I didn't really notice any posts from him in the Social Media thread, either pro or anti Musk. Glad I missed that (recent?) post about leftist bias against Musk.
But yeah, while this is not directly tied to moderation, it's a pretty bad look to insist that people should focus on the supposedly positive achievements of Musk companies and ignore his far right conspiracy theorist views.
Also, while I haven't had a bad experience with Fighteer in a discussion myself, I was not really pleased with this post here in the Witcher thread
, where he responded to the show (I'd assume unintentionally) evoking the anti-semitic Blood Libel trope by stating, "I'm sorry, you cannot hold writers hostage and demand that they never show a persecuted group in a negative light just because there are some dickheads who'll use it as a justification. That's insane."
I'm going to add my voice to the crowd saying that Fighteer should step down as moderator. He has repeatedly acted like a vulgar bully and, frankly, some of his previous actions come off as heavily bigoted at worst. This has been going on for long enough. If it's getting to the point where it's a regular issue for YEARS now, then the problem lies with Fighteer themselves and needs to be addressed. If this were any other place, a moderator committing this behavior would be removed from their position.
Huh. So less passive antisemitism than we’ve traditionally seen from him. Holy shit, you don’t talk to Jewish people expressing concerns that way
Edited by Lightysnake on Dec 22nd 2022 at 10:57:08 AM
The question of punishment vis a vis self-control comes down to the questions of "if" I volunteered last page. But "if" itself is a speculation with a lot of work on his part and good faith he'd need to restore. Fighteer's volatile personality is at least one of the reasons the efficacy of him merely "stepping back" even is a question.
Even the evidence from this this thread points troublingly
to the idea a voluntary approach wouldn't work. If the question of self-control is really this major an issue, the question instead for me becomes what at all justifies keeping him his position if this pattern of behavior continues? Why is such a wide berth being given to a user who has repeatedly proven he has severe trouble managing his own issues?
Edited by Scraggle on Dec 22nd 2022 at 11:59:08 AM
x7 I feel this is a completely baseless accusation. Whatever his other flaws may be, Fighteer is not in the habit of banning people who criticize him. He is certainly doing no such thing right now, so I feel we should stay well away of such insinuations, as it just weakens our case.
By the way, I have no idea how many people "everyone" would be. How many members does this forum have, anyway? And how many have responded?
Edited by Redmess on Dec 22nd 2022 at 8:02:05 PM
Hope shines brightest in the darkest timesThe main thing that would "justify" it is that, for better or for worse, Fighteer does pull his weight when it comes to moderating and things could be more difficult for the other mods if he were forcibly removed.
Not that this isn't already making things difficult, I suppose...
I'm just saying. His actual work as a moderator would be the thing that keeps him from being demoted as a mod. Whether or not this is considered an actual problem or not, though, remains to be seen, but it's one reason why I'm a little iffy on him being demoted. I mean, I totally get why people would favor that — I'm just a little on the fence, but I'm also one of the few people who haven't really had any terrible interactions with him and have never been personally offended by something he'd said in my presence, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I'm not telling anyone how they should feel about this option, I'm just weighing in as someone who agrees it could work but isn't sure if they'd be able to take that nuclear option themselves.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallFor the sake of transparency, and so people don't think I'm cherrypicking posters to join in on the conversation or priming them to bash Fighteer behind the scenes, here's a (synopsized, so as to not violate the "no sharing P Ms" rule) version of the PM I've been sharing to everyone I've been personally requesting to join in, though I've modified it as the conversation evolved:
Someone asked for more people to weigh in if to keep the thread from becoming skewed by a Vocal Minority and I thought you could help since you are an active poster in the present and in threads that Fighteer frequents.
The subjects are whether Fighteer overstepped his bounds and if so what should be done about it. Any viewpoint is welcome.
If you can't or don't want to weigh in but know someone who might, please ask them to join. The more voices we can get, the better the grasp of the situation.
Not everyone posting in these threads was personally requested by me, and if you are still concerned about cherrypicking, I'm still open to us opening an ATT to ask for more people to come in, at the risk of inviting trolls and people who have beef with Fighteer for less legitimate reasons (given that he's also banned a lot of people who were outright racist or rude in his own right).
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Even though he doesn't ban people for criticizing him and has been willing to put up with personal attacks on him, people have posted multiple instances in these threads of his willingness to throw his weight around as a mod to intimidate people for disagreeing with him with the threat of a ban.
Edited by AlleyOop on Dec 22nd 2022 at 2:14:24 PM
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I was not insinuating a thing. The opposite actually—I was arguing that people here aren't going to get banned—I believe that would have happened already if that were the case.
EDIT: That comment was not referring to me. I apologize for the misunderstanding.
Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Dec 22nd 2022 at 2:04:21 PM
Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall

So as Ordeaux mentioned earlier, I acknowledged that some users of certain sites come to this site and start trouble, but there have been, as Ordeaux points out, multiple productive contributors who are dual netizens, something I mentioned to Fighteer himself on this past 11th of April, if someone wishes to check my inbox. As stated before, Fighteer's response was kind of dismissive towards the notion of people from the website in question being productive contributors, to the point of wishing he could prohibit anyone who happened to be a dual netizen of this site and the site in quesition.
People in the discussion
where the banned party was suspended managed to be comparatively polite
to when the suspension appeal was addressed on April 11th.
I'm sorry, but I still think that an implied middle-finger gesture
is kinda unprofessional for a moderator to perform when addressing a suspension.
Again, otherwise, I haven't much experience with his misconduct.
Edited by SkyCat32 on Dec 22nd 2022 at 12:40:00 PM