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Note: The thread currently has a limit of one post every two hours for non-mod users. Currently, this is hard-coded by the admins, but there are plans to give mods the ability to toggle it without admin intervention. After mods are given the ability to do that, the time limit may be further reduced or removed entirely.


This thread is for discussing the following topics:

  • Questions and clarifications about the site's rules and policies pertaining to wiki editing, forum posting, trope launching, and so on.
  • If you have an idea for a thread on another part of the forums but aren't sure if creating it would be allowed, feel free to ask here.

This thread is not for any of the following:

  • Reporting complaints or concerns about specific moderation decisions (e.g. suspensions and thumps). Report these directly to the admins via the contact form. Selecting "The Staff" sends your message to the admins only, without making it visible to moderators.
  • Queries about thumps applied to your own forum posts, including contesting the validity of a thump. Reply to the relevant moderator via PM for these matters.
  • Ban appeals (use the "Edit Banned" thread in this forum).
  • Reporting problems or requesting moderator action in the wiki or forums (use Ask The Tropers or Hollersnote  or specialized threads such as "Locked Pages").
  • Queries about locked On-Topic Conversations (OTC) threads or banned discussion topics. OTC has its own moderation discussion thread here, and the latest statement on the locked US Politics thread and other banned OTC topics is here. Bluntly, when certain OTC threads and topics have repeatedly caused problems, we're not going to provide forum space to discuss them again until the moderation toolkit is equipped to handle those conversations.
  • Cut List challenges and queries (they have their own thread here).
  • Requests for changes to the site's code or discussion about such changes, as mods cannot change the code; only the admins can do that. Please direct tech requests to Query Bugs or Tech Wishlist (for bug reports and suggestions for feature additions/changes, respectively), and take other tech-related discussion to the Changelog thread.
  • Crowner actions. Please use the holler function instead.
  • Discussion about changing or implementing policies. Please use Wiki Talk for that. (Asking whether it's OK to make a specific thread is acceptable; using this thread in place of such a thread is not.)
  • Asking about the whereabouts of inactive mods (or other inactive users) before they return, if they return at all. Use the Absent people thread for discussing inactive users.

Posts that use this thread in place of the sections listed in the bulleted list above are off-topic.
We're aware that the Edit Banned thread has a Non-Indicative Name, due to it also covering non-editing suspensions. We're not sure whether the name for that thread can even be edited without breaking the special coding that keeps posting restricted to mods and suspended users, so we're leaving it alone for now, because better safe than sorry.
(Edited Mar 28 2024, adding bullet about OTC and amending layout a little)

Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 11th 2024 at 3:20:25 AM

TheWhiteWolf (ON INDEFINITE HIATUS) from the Restaurant at the End of the Universe Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
(ON INDEFINITE HIATUS)
#526: Jan 19th 2021 at 1:16:40 PM

.

Edited by TheWhiteWolf on Jan 19th 2021 at 4:20:37 AM

She/they. Hirrus Clutumnus is my comfort character
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#527: Jan 19th 2021 at 1:16:46 PM

@Madface: Luckily, nobody here is seriously considering removing those forums entirely. We all pretty much agree that at their best they're harmless fun. The problem are the toxic threads that existed in these forums.


[up] Hey dude, Fighteer and the other mods are all trying to solve the problem here; I'm not sure insulting them is gonna fix anything.

Edited by WarJay77 on Jan 19th 2021 at 4:18:04 AM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#528: Jan 19th 2021 at 1:17:55 PM

[up][up] Not a smart move. Unless you want to be banned I recommend not asking for it.

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
TheWhiteWolf (ON INDEFINITE HIATUS) from the Restaurant at the End of the Universe Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
(ON INDEFINITE HIATUS)
#529: Jan 19th 2021 at 1:18:27 PM

.

Edited by TheWhiteWolf on Jan 19th 2021 at 4:20:27 AM

She/they. Hirrus Clutumnus is my comfort character
TheWhistleTropes janet likes her new icon. Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
janet likes her new icon.
#530: Jan 19th 2021 at 1:18:34 PM

Hey @TheWhiteWolf, I understand that you are ready to depart, but I don't think you should try to leave on such an antagonistic and sour note. If anything, it may hurt the case for helping keep Yack Fest and Forum Games alive.

she/her/they | wall | sandbox
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#531: Jan 19th 2021 at 1:18:56 PM

In most cases I'd imagine it's because they like the site itself and its community, despite this.

But then why not come here and fight to make that community better by holding the mods to account?

The mods are a key part of this community, the community can’t be healthy if they’re not at least somewhat good for things. If they’re bad at their job then they need to be corrected. God knows I’ve called the mods out when I’ve felt they’ve gone wrong over the last decade. So far they’ve not banned me for it.

My concern is that the answer to my question is that people aren’t committed to this forum/site and its community, but to a sub-community they’ve found here that views itself as apart from the wider community and basically under hostile occupation by the mod team.

Edited by Silasw on Jan 19th 2021 at 9:20:59 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
wingedcatgirl mys. minty from the silly dimension from lurking (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
mys. minty from the silly dimension
#532: Jan 19th 2021 at 1:19:23 PM

The persons responsible for these games report directly to the moderation team and inform us of any actions they would like us to take on the basis of what is going on: rules violations and so on. We will take those actions unless there's a strong reason not to.
Can't speak for the other GMs, but we would be completely fine with this. This seems very reasonable?

A bit of a moot point if we're moving off-site, but if we ever start a new project on TVT in future, we'll do our best to keep in contact with the mods. It is very obvious in retrospect that we didn't do enough to keep y'all in the loop.

Suddenly I'm... still rotating Fallen London in my mind even though I've stopped actively playing it.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#533: Jan 19th 2021 at 1:19:25 PM

Wolf, it'd help if you explained what the issue is. If you want these things to have an ideal resolution, help us figure it out.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
TheWhistleTropes janet likes her new icon. Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
janet likes her new icon.
#534: Jan 19th 2021 at 1:20:49 PM

@Sylvi/WCG If it makes you feel better, I have edited the Murderverse page to reflect that it was originally hosted on the site, not currently, in order to reflect its changing state while still leaving open possibilities.

she/her/they | wall | sandbox
TheWhiteWolf (ON INDEFINITE HIATUS) from the Restaurant at the End of the Universe Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
(ON INDEFINITE HIATUS)
#535: Jan 19th 2021 at 1:20:56 PM

I don't care.

I'm not going to be on the forums anymore.

She/they. Hirrus Clutumnus is my comfort character
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#536: Jan 19th 2021 at 1:20:57 PM

Honestly, the people who claim to like the community so much yet have a problem with moderation remind me a little too much of the toxic folks on other social media. There’s a reason this is the only online community I’m part of (not counting private discord servers for people I know IRL).

My musician page
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#537: Jan 19th 2021 at 1:21:26 PM

My concern is that the answer to my question is that people aren’t committed to this forum/site and its community, but to a sub-community they’ve found here that views itself as apart from the wider community and basically under hostile occupation by the mod team.

Possibly. A lot of these posters seem to only really use the forums and don't do much wiki activity. They probably came for the community, stayed for it, and now want to leave with it. And if that's what they're invested in then I guess it's the way things are...

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
TheWhistleTropes janet likes her new icon. Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
janet likes her new icon.
#538: Jan 19th 2021 at 1:22:24 PM

Admittedly, I have not had many antagonistic altercations with moderators. If anything, I am on relatively healthy terms with them (though those have very likely soured with this recent incident). I had joined to be a contributor before discovering the pocket community, and have still been a contributor regardless.

Edited by TheWhistleTropes on Jan 19th 2021 at 4:22:59 AM

she/her/they | wall | sandbox
TheWhiteWolf (ON INDEFINITE HIATUS) from the Restaurant at the End of the Universe Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
(ON INDEFINITE HIATUS)
#539: Jan 19th 2021 at 1:23:11 PM

I think the moderators could have taken a less drastic approach with all of this.

She/they. Hirrus Clutumnus is my comfort character
Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#540: Jan 19th 2021 at 1:24:33 PM

[up]X3 That’s fair enough, I’m not active wiki-side, I’ve basically spent 10 years hanging out in OTC. If OTC was shut down I’d probably leave.

But until then I’m part of not just the OTC community but also the forum community and the site community. Communities can nestle within each other and a person can feel a level of citizenship at all levels.

[up] What do you feel was antagonists and how do you feel they should have acted? We can have a conversation here if you’re interested.

Edited by Silasw on Jan 19th 2021 at 9:25:31 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#541: Jan 19th 2021 at 1:24:45 PM

Agreed, a public forum can never be a proper safe space.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
TheWhiteWolf (ON INDEFINITE HIATUS) from the Restaurant at the End of the Universe Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
(ON INDEFINITE HIATUS)
#542: Jan 19th 2021 at 1:25:29 PM

[up] That is true

She/they. Hirrus Clutumnus is my comfort character
TheWhistleTropes janet likes her new icon. Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
janet likes her new icon.
#543: Jan 19th 2021 at 1:26:02 PM

Can you blame them though?

  • People have been antagonistic toward a troper for something they did offsite.
  • It boiled over in various places, including giving insults on a compliment thread.
  • The troper resisted it when people said they weren't comfortable with them around.
  • Eventually, they called another troper an ableist slur and made a joke about suicide.
  • One troper made a harsh comment about the suicide and discussed desecrating their grave.
  • That troper was called out for her actions and the thread was locked, all tropers involved suspended.

she/her/they | wall | sandbox
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#544: Jan 19th 2021 at 1:26:21 PM

Generally speaking I don't antagonize the mods as some current/former users have done. Most of the people who had problems with the mods have displayed problematic behavior themselves, and the Edit Banned thread is more than enough evidence of that. Occasionally I think a mod might be a bit rude, but as others have said it is 100% understandable considering some of the people who create problems on this site.

What I'm saying is, don't declare war on the mods. It will not end well for you, especially if the behavior you exhibited is prevalent across your forum activity or edits.

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
TheWhiteWolf (ON INDEFINITE HIATUS) from the Restaurant at the End of the Universe Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
(ON INDEFINITE HIATUS)
#545: Jan 19th 2021 at 1:26:52 PM

Also, I'm not particularly interested in having a conversation, ore posting here anymore in general. That is all I have to say.

She/they. Hirrus Clutumnus is my comfort character
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#546: Jan 19th 2021 at 1:27:54 PM

Honestly, the people who claim to like the community so much yet have a problem with moderation remind me a little too much of the toxic folks on other social media. There’s a reason this is the only online community I’m part of (not counting private discord servers for people I know IRL).

I've been to communities with active forum groups that love the site itself but hate the staff that run it, similar to this debacle. The difference is that the staff on those other sites were so much worse than the TVT moderation.

I once got banned for jokingly poking fun at a mod, who then refused to let me back in, after I'd been a very prolific and non-offending poster in the past. People were convinced they banned me not because of what I did but because I was popular and they wanted to send a message to the community I was part of. The joke, BTW, was me making a The Room discussion thread with the title "You are tearing me APART, Moderators!", for closing the thread that spawned my desire to discuss the film.

Similarly, another site I'm thinking of has a staff that, at best, isn't very competent at running the place and seems obsessed with micromanaging everything while at the same time not fixing actual problems. The forum-goers themselves are generally non-toxic and care about the site very deeply.

But none of these issues would happen on TVT. The mods let you appeal bans openly; they aren't so thin-skinned that they'd permaban you for making a harmless joke; they don't moderate so strictly that we're stifled but still care about the site. The mods here aren't perfect, but they're pretty damn good compared to other sites.

Edited by WarJay77 on Jan 19th 2021 at 4:31:34 AM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#547: Jan 19th 2021 at 1:28:54 PM

[up][up] Well, if you no longer want to participate in the forums, don't. You don't need to make a dramatic statement, unless you also want your editing privileges suspended, and even then you can just leave the site. Maybe you can put a non-rude note on your troper page if you want others to know you are retired. Just don't insult people, no one appreciates that.

Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Jan 19th 2021 at 4:29:01 AM

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#548: Jan 19th 2021 at 1:30:21 PM

Also, I'm not particularly interested in having a conversation, ore posting here anymore in general. That is all I have to say.

And that's your right. I'm just confused at why you came here, to a thread of people earnestly trying to fix these issues and rebuild the community, just to insult people. It's not very constructive.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#549: Jan 19th 2021 at 1:30:22 PM

[up][up][up]Yeah, the continued existence of OTC is a testament to the success of this site’s approach to moderation.

Edited by ShinyCottonCandy on Jan 19th 2021 at 4:30:34 AM

My musician page
Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#550: Jan 19th 2021 at 1:30:37 PM

Yeah, insulting the mods while loudly declaring you're leaving is a good way to get the door locked behind you. Try to be constructive.

[up][up] Ironically, that's just the sort of thing I was talking about a page ago: people leaving loudly and making a scene doing it. It's rude, it doesn't accomplish anything, and chances are they don't really leave anyway.

Edited by Redmess on Jan 19th 2021 at 10:33:34 AM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times

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