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Note: The thread currently has a limit of one post every two hours for non-mod users. Currently, this is hard-coded by the admins, but there are plans to give mods the ability to toggle it without admin intervention. After mods are given the ability to do that, the time limit may be further reduced or removed entirely.


This thread is for discussing the following topics:

  • Questions and clarifications about the site's rules and policies pertaining to wiki editing, forum posting, trope launching, and so on.
  • If you have an idea for a thread on another part of the forums but aren't sure if creating it would be allowed, feel free to ask here.

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  • Queries about locked On-Topic Conversations (OTC) threads or banned discussion topics. OTC has its own moderation discussion thread here, and the latest statement on the locked US Politics thread and other banned OTC topics is here. Bluntly, when certain OTC threads and topics have repeatedly caused problems, we're not going to provide forum space to discuss them again until the moderation toolkit is equipped to handle those conversations.
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Posts that use this thread in place of the sections listed in the bulleted list above are off-topic.
We're aware that the Edit Banned thread has a Non-Indicative Name, due to it also covering non-editing suspensions. We're not sure whether the name for that thread can even be edited without breaking the special coding that keeps posting restricted to mods and suspended users, so we're leaving it alone for now, because better safe than sorry.
(Edited Mar 28 2024, adding bullet about OTC and amending layout a little)

Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 11th 2024 at 3:20:25 AM

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#4401: Jun 4th 2022 at 6:05:58 AM

Giving a friendly first warning when that happens should solve that issue, at least.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#4402: Jun 4th 2022 at 8:08:18 AM

I think the mods account for more than just "no edit history and sudden posting". Like, where did they start posting? What sort of posts were they? Did they try and contribute productively, or come in with an apparent agenda? Etc.

Besides, anyone banned unfairly can still appeal.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#4403: Jun 4th 2022 at 9:08:42 AM

There are quite a few degrees in between "lurked for a couple years with sporadic activity in different areas before joining project threads regularly" and "joined yesterday and suddenly has 5 posts in CM". The latter is obvious and what the rule targets.

Edited by Synchronicity on Jun 4th 2022 at 11:09:08 AM

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#4404: Jun 4th 2022 at 9:13:53 AM

Honestly, like Fighteer said, this is such a specific targeting of a very narrow, weird slice of wonkery that I'm not even sure why it's being applied to the Long Term Projects forum as a whole instead of just the CM and MB threads. I don't think there's much risk of ordinary tropers who just don't post much being caught up.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#4405: Jun 4th 2022 at 9:17:56 AM

We are unable to apply thread-specific bans so I’m future-proofing the rule against rules lawyering.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
RallyBot2 (Elder Troper) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
#4406: Jun 4th 2022 at 9:18:51 AM

Even if someone lurked for a while and made absolutely no edits or forum posts then started posting in CM/MB, that time period means that they're (probably) not a brigader from another site. Brigaders, by their nature, usually have fresh accounts created to "right great wrongs" with our wiki.

On the other hand, they may not be brigaders, but their chance of making useful contributions is fairly low. I disagree with having a required number of edits/posts (as they'd be low quality garbage,) but it's a useful measure for the mods to use.

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#4407: Jun 4th 2022 at 10:59:49 AM

It could be a metric for the mods, but I wouldn't make it a requirement, that is just going to encourage garbage edits.

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
N1KF Alleged Number1KirbyFan (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
Alleged Number1KirbyFan
#4408: Jun 4th 2022 at 3:48:29 PM

I think something to be considered would be the actual content of the posts. I'm not active in the CM or MB threads, but I have seen that lots of posts are just "[tup]" to a candidate which don't add much.

Another solution could be to put less value on votes. If people are expected to express why they think somebody does or doesn't count, it may be easier to figure out when the thread is being manipulated.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#4409: Jun 4th 2022 at 3:59:26 PM

I don't think it's necessary to have to preface every vote with a reason. That's easier said than done when their like ten characters in one day to vote on. (We shot down the idea of crowners way back to avoid sock puppeting so we could count every vote manually).

[up]But we already have eps for that. To explain why you think someone counts. It's fine for debates on contentious characters but Most characters who come into the thread aren't even that controversial.

Edited by miraculous on Jun 4th 2022 at 4:02:39 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
valozzy Since: Feb, 2013 Relationship Status: Desperate
#4410: Jun 4th 2022 at 4:23:03 PM

The "[tup] character" posts are fine as is, they function as crowners without bogging down moderation.

N1KF Alleged Number1KirbyFan (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
Alleged Number1KirbyFan
#4411: Jun 4th 2022 at 4:46:07 PM

That's fair. I'm not a regular in the thread so I wouldn't really know what works there.

Flowman Since: Dec, 2021
#4412: Jun 4th 2022 at 6:15:39 PM

So how much retroactivity will be applied to the rule? Like how long of an experience in the thread is considered the amount for "you're fine, you've proven yourself trustworthy"? I recall reading on the MB Thread that these rules are not meant to retroactively disclude others and are meant for new accounts. This is kind of important, I understand that I'm probably one of the people targeted by this rule because I am a relatively newer member of the threads but I kind of want to know for sure (though I'll still try to edit more either way, as it's fair of me to do so and thusly the right thing to do).

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#4413: Jun 4th 2022 at 6:17:01 PM

I don't think the mods intend to apply the rule retroactively, it's more of just a way to prevent people from abusing the thread system either with socks or with an agenda.

I wonder if Fighteer's wording of the rule may need to be clarified. This fear keeps being mentioned.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
themayorofsimpleton Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him from the Island of Koridai (Captain) Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
Short-Term Projects Herald | he/him
#4414: Jun 4th 2022 at 6:20:21 PM

Thanks for the clarification all. I agree with [up], the wording in Fighteer's rule may need to be more specific.

Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Bobonofa Since: Aug, 2014
#4415: Jun 4th 2022 at 10:55:13 PM

Excuse me, but where is this new rule at exactly? It's really hard trying to follow this conversation without knowing what exactly the rule is.

[down]thanks. It's weird that the rules is not at the top but 7 below it.

Edited by Bobonofa on Jun 4th 2022 at 11:04:34 AM

Cutegirl920fire Player 222 from the Squid Games (Five Long Years) Relationship Status: Paris holds the key to my heart
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#4417: Jun 4th 2022 at 11:05:44 PM

While I have concerns, I think restricting wiki-maintenence side of the forum to people who at least show understanding of how the wiki works is genrally a good idea. The crowners, and Trope Talk and Wiki Talk are still public.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Palindromee Relax, Ice Queen. from the Celestial Wasteland (Y2K) Relationship Status: I sleep in a big bed with my wife.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#4419: Jun 5th 2022 at 9:37:01 AM
Thumped: This post has been thumped with the mod stick. This means knock it off.
Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#4420: Jun 5th 2022 at 9:42:07 AM

Please stay on-topic and also don't intentionally play with forum rules For Lulz.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#4421: Jun 5th 2022 at 10:05:49 AM

I did see that TRS is included in addition to Projects, and since my main focus is TRS, I might as well mention that I wasn't planning to apply the rule retroactively.

That said, I would get suspicious if someone with no wiki activity came into a TRS thread to complain and/or make demands, as opposed to simply discussing the thread's subject, making a suggestion (again, as opposed to outright demanding something), or casting a vote, but if new rule requires wiki activity before doing anything on TRS, them's the breaks.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jun 5th 2022 at 12:23:56 PM

I got a rock for Halloween.
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#4422: Jun 5th 2022 at 10:27:35 AM

TBH, I am not so sure that we should assume that everyone partaking in workshops w/o wiki contributions is there to disrupt.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#4423: Jun 5th 2022 at 10:47:22 AM

I actually agree, and I originally didn't know TRS was part of the package since the rule was implemented because of issues on the Projects forums rather than TRS.

Edit: To clarify, the type of post I would object to is more a matter of tone than contents, but the rule's wording makes the contents sound irrelevant.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jun 5th 2022 at 12:49:58 PM

I got a rock for Halloween.
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#4424: Jun 5th 2022 at 10:53:43 AM

The primary concern is the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads, but the overall purpose of the rule is to stop the kind of backseat driving that has been observed to be motivated by agendas from other websites.

It is irrational for someone to show up out of nowhere and just be interested in cleanups. Do they not have any other interests? Do they not want to talk about media or tropes? When I first joined TV Tropes, I didn't even know about the business side of the forums, and I'll wager that's the experience of most of our other users.

Sure, they might be lurkers, but given recent events I doubt it. All I want is to see some sign of good faith, like editing the wiki or discussing media.

Edited by Fighteer on Jun 5th 2022 at 1:54:27 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#4425: Jun 5th 2022 at 10:57:38 AM

For what it's worth, I didn't really do anything other than edit when I joined in 2008, and I didn't become active on ATT or the forums until 2017, nearly a decade later. I wasn't even that active for roughly the first half of the previous decade, which means I didn't even pay attention to changes that were otherwise pretty obvious, like the nuking of Troper Tales or the renaming of Nakama. (I'm also glad I didn't know what kind of horrors lurked behind those Troper Tales tabs until after they stopped being a problem.)

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jun 5th 2022 at 1:19:47 PM

I got a rock for Halloween.

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