Note: The thread currently has a limit of one post every two hours for non-mod users. Currently, this is hard-coded by the admins, but there are plans to give mods the ability to toggle it without admin intervention. After mods are given the ability to do that, the time limit may be further reduced or removed entirely.
This thread is for discussing the following topics:
- Questions and clarifications about the site's rules and policies pertaining to wiki editing, forum posting, trope launching, and so on.
- If you have an idea for a thread on another part of the forums but aren't sure if creating it would be allowed, feel free to ask here.
This thread is not for any of the following:
- Reporting complaints or concerns about specific moderation decisions (e.g. suspensions and thumps). Report these directly to the admins via the contact form
. Selecting "The Staff" sends your message to the admins only, without making it visible to moderators.
- Queries about thumps applied to your own forum posts, including contesting the validity of a thump. Reply to the relevant moderator via PM for these matters.
- Ban appeals (use the "Edit Banned" thread
in this forum).
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).
- Queries about locked On-Topic Conversations (OTC) threads or banned discussion topics. OTC has its own moderation discussion thread here
, and the latest statement on the locked US Politics thread
and other banned OTC topics is here
. Bluntly, when certain OTC threads and topics have repeatedly caused problems, we're not going to provide forum space to discuss them again until the moderation toolkit is equipped to handle those conversations.
- Cut List challenges and queries (they have their own thread here
).
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.
- Crowner actions. Please use the holler function instead.
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Posts that use this thread in place of the sections listed in the bulleted list above are off-topic.
We're aware that the Edit Banned thread has a Non-Indicative Name, due to it also covering non-editing suspensions. We're not sure whether the name for that thread can even be edited without breaking the special coding that keeps posting restricted to mods and suspended users, so we're leaving it alone for now, because better safe than sorry.
(Edited Mar 28 2024, adding bullet about OTC and amending layout a little)
Edited by GastonRabbit on Oct 11th 2024 at 3:20:25 AM
We're aware of the mass cutlisting of What an Idiot! subpages. Macron declined them
and notified the TRS thread.
And yeah, the Cut List isn't perfect. For some reason, the "Challenge" button (or "wait" button as it calls it) mentioned at the top of the page only appears for mods alongside the buttons for cutting and declining, and I'm not sure if it does anything.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Jan 5th 2022 at 4:20:49 AM
I got a rock for Halloween.Perhaps it would be better to have a challenge button available to all tropers.
Hope shines brightest in the darkest times![]()
Yeah, Septimus once told me it existed, and I had to do a double take only to realize, yeah, it's not an option for me.
It used to work for all users, but was broken in a software update some years ago.
Why am I not surprized...
TroperWall / WikiMagic CleanupI think it would benefit the site if they hired another dev or two. Like we already got Amonius, who develops stuff in their free time.
CG for short(Casually implements Administrivia.Two Point Zero)
I'm more interested how many non-mod staff are there active, 0.5? I see suggestions in Query Bugs and Query Wishlist being addressed like only twice a year. I know the pandemic and all though.
Edited by Amonimus on Jan 5th 2022 at 12:05:42 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic CleanupTV Tropes is currently operated by a business, unlike in the past when Eddie, Janitor, and Gus (RIP) did it as a labor of love. That means development time is paid, not donated. The admins are not currently accepting contributions or open-source code.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Alleged Number1KirbyFan
It's especially frustrating, because that attitude isn't even taken consistently. Since this is a wiki, it's free work for the users, but the moment this can become easier for us through the wiki software, it becomes paid and has to go through corporate overlords. At least for me, it can be tempting not to edit the wiki because of all the steps involved in basic tasks like moving pages, crosswicking, or even just navigating a 100-kilobytes example list in the wiki editor.
If the developers are paid, why aren't the editors? I know the answer is because it's the safest and most convenient way to manage it, but it's not a satisfying answer for at least me, who has probably spent many hours just reorganizing pages out of unpaid dedication to clean up the wiki and pimp my favorite works.
And while I'd prefer TV Tropes as a not-for-profit site, there are still big companies that produce open-source software like Adobe, Mozilla, or Oracle. I know it's unreasonable to ask a company to change its business model, but that's another part of what makes it frustrating. Even if all the editors decided to stop bothering with the wiki, the vast majority of non-editing users aren't going to care and keep maximizing ad revenue.
edit: Removed comment about TV Tropes's owner company that I realized might not apply to TV Tropes.
Edited by N1KF on Jan 5th 2022 at 5:39:36 AM
There's a secret part of myself who's extremely tempted to apply to TV Tropes corporate and discover all the wacky hinjinks that actually go on behind the scenes... And then go rogue and just start throwing out updates left and right until they fire my ass. I would never actually get hired, my biggest skill with computers is managing to not break them in the first five minutes of using them, but man it would be interesting.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall![]()
You do know how much more goes into actual code than the front-facing markup we can all edit, don't you? Aside from basic formatting, all we really do is essentially blog our observations. It's not remotely comparable to the full-time work that is actually programming, database maintenance, etc.
Berserk Button: misusing Nightmare Fuel
As nice as it would be to get paid for editing TV Tropes, I know that it's absolutely impossible for it to ever happen.
If anyone should get paid it's the mods, not ordinary editors.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallBecause This Is a Wiki. They don't feel the need to pay anyone since by design it's compelling for random visitors to contribute, and being able to is like a "service". They're not obliged to do a thing if you can't prove it would increase the in-traffic or you can't scare them with making "those two clone "sites more popular than this one.
tl;dr: Pay them first to get their attention.
Edited by Amonimus on Jan 5th 2022 at 2:49:02 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Alleged Number1KirbyFan
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I don't know much about developing anything close to this scale, so it could be a bit reassuring to know what it's actually like.
What I do know is how to use Regex replace with thousands of text files, and basic SQL queries, which seem like the sort of things that could make lots of slow wiki work much easier. Like migrating page names for example.
Edited by N1KF on Jan 5th 2022 at 5:52:53 AM
No wiki pays members for their contributions. That's absurd. Although we do compensate users to an extent by allowing them to use ad blockers if they've contributed recently.
The idea of giving moderators a stipend has come up before, but the problem there is that we are all volunteers, freely donating our time with no expectations or contracts. If we were actually paid for our work, that would form an implicit employment agreement, which would have all sorts of consequences.
For example, if I use the laptop that my employer provides me to moderate the wiki under this arrangement, I would be in violation of that employment agreement and could get fired. Also, if I spend fifty hours a week doing mod stuff, that could violate labor laws.
It is far easier for all parties if there is no compensatory arrangement.
Edited by Fighteer on Jan 5th 2022 at 7:12:23 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Alleged Number1KirbyFan
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Yeah, there is definitely some entertainment value in editing the wiki. And I do realize it's probably the sanest business option to say Status Quo Is God and not give the users too much influence in the site. Which I disagree with on principle, but explaining why is misplaced since it's not like the website owners are open to debating this.
It does make me wonder why the same logic wouldn't be applied to the site's development. Why isn't it also considered a service to allow people to volunteer for the site? I'm sure plenty of users would appreciate the transparency, and it would also give them a better understanding of why this website is so hard to develop.
Edited by N1KF on Jan 5th 2022 at 6:13:56 AM
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"allowing them to use ad blockers", how does that work?
"appreciation" is not profitable, unless it invites more people to the site.
Not to mention, on a wiki like this, where it's about fandoms and fans, it'd be insanely hard to not just pay everyone who adds content, but to also have any sort of "hiring process". Who would get hired as a paid editor? The people who are the best at writing and following wiki code? Sounds viable until you realize that it'd probably minimize the number of people who can trope obscure works. It'd basically turn TVT into your bog standard pop-culture site, aimed more at staying relevant than at identifying media trends in everything.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall![]()
There is a script that detects if you're blocking ads and nags you about it. If you have edited within a certain period of time (I forget how long), you can snooze the nag.
Alleged Number1KirbyFan
Yes, paying editors obviously an unsustainable idea. The idea was to consider whether the logic used for the website's development makes for a better website when applied in general.
It's frustrating if this all goes back to making a profit, as opposed to the merits of making a quality website. If that's the case, and we want the development to improve, I suppose the next part of fixing the problem would be to identify how improving the website could help the owners squeeze money out of it.
The owners are not running TV Tropes for profit. It's certainly not a money-making operation. But they do expect to get enough revenue to keep it operating and to pay developers and themselves. We can debate all we want about the merits of volunteer, open-source coding, but that particular decision is not ours to make.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"Writing pages on obscure stuff is one way to help. As someone who calls himself a "blue ocean strategy" guy, I wrote pages on things that have a known group of fans without much knowledge, like obscure musicians, Big Fish Games... games and idle games. Each new page brings at least a couple inbounds, and potential new audiences. I see it as making small harmless investments: you never know what happens, but it'll generally be positive, and you may hit the big one once in a while (case in point: Big Bill Hell's).
Edited by Piterpicher on Jan 5th 2022 at 1:49:46 PM
Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)

We should probably have a thread for discussing cutting pages so there can be consensus, and forbid tropers from unilaterally cutting.
Hope shines brightest in the darkest times