The thing is is that it's locked, so there's nobody really editing the page. But yes, I still do think All Gays Are Pedophiles is a Dead Horse Trope, at least in the Western world. The more recent examples (at least from the past five years) have a character called out for expressing this attitude.
Edited by ccorb on Oct 23rd 2020 at 2:26:37 PM
Rock'n'roll never dies!I would say it’s more of a Discredited Trope as it’s not taken seriously and considered offensive. Dead Horse Trope is when parodies outnumber straight examples.
"It's just a show; I should really just relax"Agreed that it's discredited and probably locked to stop vandals. Sandbox an updated definition and we can paste it in.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"The is of Dead Horse Trope strikes me as misuse. I think Forgotten Trope makes more sense in that sentence.
Made a first attempt. Opinions?
The basic idea that all homosexuals (especially men) have a sexual interest in children and will molest them if they get a chance. This is still used as an excuse to persecute the gay community, the primary fear being that gays are trying to "recruit" children as part of the "Gay agenda" (related to Rape and Switch).
This is mostly a Discredited Trope nowadays. The growing awareness of LGBT discrimination led to increasingly regard this trope as old-fashioned and offensive. Most recent examples tend to be subversions, if not openly calling out characters for expressing this attitude.
It's a little ridiculous that we came up with so many ways that tropes can die. As for the updated description, I'm not sure the "Gay agenda" thing was the original motivating factor for the trope — that feels a little anachronistic.
In my personal memory, the reasons for associating homosexuality with pedophilia had to do with a combination of erroneous beliefs:
- Social repression of sexual desire among gay men leading them to seek alternative outlets.
- Homosexuality is depraved, pederasty is depraved, therefore homosexuals are pederasts.
- Awareness of child sexual abuse among sexually cloistered men conflated with accusations of homosexuality among such men. (cf: sex abuse by priests)
- Conflation of lack of sexual adequacy, effeminacy, and seeking victims who can't resist.
- Is that creepy shut-in guy a pedophile or a homosexual? Why not both?
These are obviously outdated attitudes but all of them existed at some point. I honestly hadn't heard of "soliciting boys into the gay lifestyle" until more recently, but even if it's contemporaneous it's far from the only rationale.
Edited by Fighteer on Nov 27th 2020 at 10:54:16 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"It's the trope in media that we are concerned with.
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"This is a second attempt:
The basic idea that homosexuals (especially men) have a sexual interest in children and will molest them if they get a chance.
This lies on several homophic prejudices. First of all the idea of lumping together sexual orientations that are equally considered "depraved", so homosexaulity and paedophilia (even bestiality sometimes). Then the growing awareness of child sexual abuse, especially those committed by cloistered men (such as in the Catholic Church), led many people to further conflate the two different aspects as if they were related. There are also those who believe in a "gay agenda" of "recruiting" children through sexual abuse; this is stil used in some places as an excuse to persecute the LGBT community.
Nowadays this is a Discredited Trope. The growing awareness of LGBT discrimination led to increasingly regard this trope as old-fashioned and offensive. Most recent examples tend to be subversions, if not openly calling out characters for expressing this attitude.
A subtrope of Depraved Homosexual. Compare Rape and Switch, when homosexuality is "triggered" after a sexual abuse. Pedophile Priest is based on a similar premise.
Fighteer misses a crucial point: a lot of known child molesting is an adult man targeting young boys. Girls and boys both suffer sexual abuse, whereas with adults it is by far women who tend to be victims. This creates the impression that pedophiles are disproportionately gay males.
What is easily missed is that before puberty, boys and girls look very similar. A good body of research suggests that many child molesters are attracted by lack of body hair and lithe limbs, and no link has been found between men who pursue sex with other men and pedophiles. But the public perception was strong.
Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.That logic also overlooks the little epidemic we have of female teachers sexually abusing young male students; though it makes sense I guess because it falls under Double Standard: Rape, Female on Male and women in general aren't what people think of when they think "pedophile".
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallI know, I was asking about QAnon because QAnon-themed or -inspired works might use this trope and thus disqualify it from being a Dead Horse Trope but wouldn't be on the radar of posters here. I wasn't asking for a debate on why the belief exists, that would go to Analysis.All Gays Are Pedophiles or OTC if anything.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanI'm unclear what would constitute a QAnon-inspired work of creative fiction or why we would ever have an article for one.
Edited by Fighteer on Nov 30th 2020 at 2:52:59 PM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"The closest thing I can think of is Stonetoss, and well
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallWell, I could see us having a page for something that contains references to Q Anon or something similar.
@Reymma: The statistics I've found indicate that girls are much more likely to be the victims of child sex abuse than boys. Quoting some sources below (bearing in mind the general difficulty of reporting this type of issue):
RAINN
(I assume they're speaking about the USA alone): 82% of all victims under 18 are female. (Quoting Department of Justice, Office of Justice Programs, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Sexual Assault of Young Children as Reported to Law Enforcement (2000).)
The fact that many people tend to assume that the majority of child sex abuse targets boys is in itself part of this trope.
I mean...we do need to keep in mind that boys and men don't report sexual abuse as often. It doesn't mean they are victimized less, but it does mean that the statistics we have in terms of reported cases and the like are disproportionately female.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wallgc: The second paragraph might be better as:
We should not say "Pedophile Priest is based on a similar premise", rather "Pedophile Priest is a phenomenon that has contributed to this".
@Doktor: "Under 18" is not what I had in mind. Pedophilia is attraction to pre-pubescent children, so under 12 is the usual threshold. Teenagers are usually targeted by adults with more normal sexuality who are taking advantage of the power discrepancy. There is also a bias in reporting that makes boys as victims more prominent in the news: many of the scandals come from institutions (especially churches) where the sexes are segregated and men have easier access to boys; whereas in families (where most abuse likely happens) adults have access to both boy and girls.
Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.

The page says it isn't a Dead Horse Trope, but judging by the low activity on the page, and the lack of notable examples as of late, I feel like this might be one now at least.
Edited by PlasmaPower on Oct 23rd 2020 at 3:00:56 PM
Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!