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PlasmaPower Piece of Cake. Since: Jan, 2015
Piece of Cake.
#1: Oct 23rd 2020 at 10:58:50 AM

The page says it isn't a Dead Horse Trope, but judging by the low activity on the page, and the lack of notable examples as of late, I feel like this might be one now at least.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Oct 23rd 2020 at 3:00:56 PM

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ccorb from A very hot place Since: May, 2020 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
#2: Oct 23rd 2020 at 11:24:31 AM

The thing is is that it's locked, so there's nobody really editing the page. But yes, I still do think All Gays Are Pedophiles is a Dead Horse Trope, at least in the Western world. The more recent examples (at least from the past five years) have a character called out for expressing this attitude.

Edited by ccorb on Oct 23rd 2020 at 2:26:37 PM

Rock'n'roll never dies!
naturalironist from The Information Superhighway Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#3: Oct 23rd 2020 at 3:38:50 PM

I would say it’s more of a Discredited Trope as it’s not taken seriously and considered offensive. Dead Horse Trope is when parodies outnumber straight examples.

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
gc10 Human Bean from Pastastastan Since: Feb, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Human Bean
#4: Nov 14th 2020 at 6:27:46 AM

[up] I agree: my personal impression is that this trope went from being played straight to just being rarely used (there just isn't a huge number of "recent" examples, even including subversions and deconstructions), instead of having been "killed" by a massive amount of deconstructions or subversions.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#5: Nov 14th 2020 at 9:13:04 AM

Agreed that it's discredited and probably locked to stop vandals. Sandbox an updated definition and we can paste it in.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
TheMountainKing Since: Jul, 2016
#6: Nov 14th 2020 at 2:55:01 PM

The is of Dead Horse Trope strikes me as misuse. I think Forgotten Trope makes more sense in that sentence.

gc10 Human Bean from Pastastastan Since: Feb, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Human Bean
#7: Nov 24th 2020 at 4:05:03 AM

Made a first attempt. Opinions?


The basic idea that all homosexuals (especially men) have a sexual interest in children and will molest them if they get a chance. This is still used as an excuse to persecute the gay community, the primary fear being that gays are trying to "recruit" children as part of the "Gay agenda" (related to Rape and Switch).

This is mostly a Discredited Trope nowadays. The growing awareness of LGBT discrimination led to increasingly regard this trope as old-fashioned and offensive. Most recent examples tend to be subversions, if not openly calling out characters for expressing this attitude.

FernandoLemon Since: Aug, 2015
#8: Nov 27th 2020 at 6:31:26 AM

I think it's discredited, yes. We have like six different "dead trope" indexes.

Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#9: Nov 27th 2020 at 7:09:41 AM

[up] It's a little ridiculous that we came up with so many ways that tropes can die. As for the updated description, I'm not sure the "Gay agenda" thing was the original motivating factor for the trope — that feels a little anachronistic.

In my personal memory, the reasons for associating homosexuality with pedophilia had to do with a combination of erroneous beliefs:

  • Social repression of sexual desire among gay men leading them to seek alternative outlets.
  • Homosexuality is depraved, pederasty is depraved, therefore homosexuals are pederasts.
  • Awareness of child sexual abuse among sexually cloistered men conflated with accusations of homosexuality among such men. (cf: sex abuse by priests)
  • Conflation of lack of sexual adequacy, effeminacy, and seeking victims who can't resist.
  • Is that creepy shut-in guy a pedophile or a homosexual? Why not both?

These are obviously outdated attitudes but all of them existed at some point. I honestly hadn't heard of "soliciting boys into the gay lifestyle" until more recently, but even if it's contemporaneous it's far from the only rationale.

Edited by Fighteer on Nov 27th 2020 at 10:54:16 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#10: Nov 27th 2020 at 11:32:32 AM

You know, are we sure that this trope is dead? QAnon is primarily concerned with left-wing politicians but I've seen some iterations with a homophobic timbre.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
gc10 Human Bean from Pastastastan Since: Feb, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Human Bean
#12: Nov 28th 2020 at 6:19:52 AM

This is a second attempt:


The basic idea that homosexuals (especially men) have a sexual interest in children and will molest them if they get a chance.

This lies on several homophic prejudices. First of all the idea of lumping together sexual orientations that are equally considered "depraved", so homosexaulity and paedophilia (even bestiality sometimes). Then the growing awareness of child sexual abuse, especially those committed by cloistered men (such as in the Catholic Church), led many people to further conflate the two different aspects as if they were related. There are also those who believe in a "gay agenda" of "recruiting" children through sexual abuse; this is stil used in some places as an excuse to persecute the LGBT community.

Nowadays this is a Discredited Trope. The growing awareness of LGBT discrimination led to increasingly regard this trope as old-fashioned and offensive. Most recent examples tend to be subversions, if not openly calling out characters for expressing this attitude.

A subtrope of Depraved Homosexual. Compare Rape and Switch, when homosexuality is "triggered" after a sexual abuse. Pedophile Priest is based on a similar premise.

Reymma RJ Savoy from Edinburgh Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Wanna dance with somebody
RJ Savoy
#13: Nov 28th 2020 at 11:16:19 AM

Fighteer misses a crucial point: a lot of known child molesting is an adult man targeting young boys. Girls and boys both suffer sexual abuse, whereas with adults it is by far women who tend to be victims. This creates the impression that pedophiles are disproportionately gay males.

What is easily missed is that before puberty, boys and girls look very similar. A good body of research suggests that many child molesters are attracted by lack of body hair and lithe limbs, and no link has been found between men who pursue sex with other men and pedophiles. But the public perception was strong.

Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#14: Nov 28th 2020 at 11:52:40 AM

That logic also overlooks the little epidemic we have of female teachers sexually abusing young male students; though it makes sense I guess because it falls under Double Standard: Rape, Female on Male and women in general aren't what people think of when they think "pedophile".

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#15: Nov 28th 2020 at 1:42:13 PM

I know, I was asking about QAnon because QAnon-themed or -inspired works might use this trope and thus disqualify it from being a Dead Horse Trope but wouldn't be on the radar of posters here. I wasn't asking for a debate on why the belief exists, that would go to Analysis.All Gays Are Pedophiles or OTC if anything.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#16: Nov 28th 2020 at 2:56:21 PM

I'm unclear what would constitute a QAnon-inspired work of creative fiction or why we would ever have an article for one.

Edited by Fighteer on Nov 30th 2020 at 2:52:59 PM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#17: Nov 28th 2020 at 2:59:42 PM

The closest thing I can think of is Stonetoss, and well

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#18: Nov 28th 2020 at 3:56:47 PM

Well, I could see us having a page for something that contains references to Q Anon or something similar.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#19: Nov 28th 2020 at 3:58:57 PM

Like a work mocking it. I could see it happen in the future sure but we cross that bridge when we get their.

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DoktorvonEurotrash Lex et Veritas from Not a place of honour (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#20: Nov 30th 2020 at 12:37:36 PM

@Reymma: The statistics I've found indicate that girls are much more likely to be the victims of child sex abuse than boys. Quoting some sources below (bearing in mind the general difficulty of reporting this type of issue):

RAINN (I assume they're speaking about the USA alone): 82% of all victims under 18 are female. (Quoting Department of Justice, Office of Justice Programs, Bureau of Justice Statistics, Sexual Assault of Young Children as Reported to Law Enforcement (2000).)

The WHO in 2002 estimated that 73 million boys and 150 million girls under the age of 18 years had experienced various forms of sexual violence.

The fact that many people tend to assume that the majority of child sex abuse targets boys is in itself part of this trope.

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#21: Nov 30th 2020 at 2:34:52 PM

I mean...we do need to keep in mind that boys and men don't report sexual abuse as often. It doesn't mean they are victimized less, but it does mean that the statistics we have in terms of reported cases and the like are disproportionately female.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
DoktorvonEurotrash Lex et Veritas from Not a place of honour (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#22: Nov 30th 2020 at 2:42:07 PM

Totally, and that's a big part of the problem of trying to eradicate sexual abuse. But the point I'm making is that there's no statistical support for the assumption that most child sexual abuse are perpetrated by men against boys.

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#23: Nov 30th 2020 at 3:30:17 PM

Fair enough.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
gc10 Human Bean from Pastastastan Since: Feb, 2019 Relationship Status: A cockroach, nothing can kill it.
Human Bean
#24: Dec 1st 2020 at 7:39:02 AM

Sorry to insist, what do you think of my description?

Reymma RJ Savoy from Edinburgh Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Wanna dance with somebody
RJ Savoy
#25: Dec 1st 2020 at 9:39:10 AM

gc: The second paragraph might be better as:

This lies on several homophic prejudices. One is conflating any unconventional sexual activity, so homosexuality and paedophilia (and even bestiality) would be lumped together as "unnatural acts". This was reinforced by widely disseminated scandals of sexual child abuse in institutions that was often of boys by men (despite this having to more to do with sex segregation making the boys more available than girls). Finally the belief that homosexuality is unnatural and must be a learned behaviour lead to the notion (still used today to clamp down on LGBT awareness campaigns) that the "gay agenda" must be preying on children. No credible research has found such any link between homosexuality and pedophilia.

We should not say "Pedophile Priest is based on a similar premise", rather "Pedophile Priest is a phenomenon that has contributed to this".

@Doktor: "Under 18" is not what I had in mind. Pedophilia is attraction to pre-pubescent children, so under 12 is the usual threshold. Teenagers are usually targeted by adults with more normal sexuality who are taking advantage of the power discrepancy. There is also a bias in reporting that makes boys as victims more prominent in the news: many of the scandals come from institutions (especially churches) where the sexes are segregated and men have easier access to boys; whereas in families (where most abuse likely happens) adults have access to both boy and girls.

Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.

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