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This thread's purpose is to discuss issues within the TLP community and site culture as well as propose solutions to said issues.

Please do not use this thread to report or call out specific users or TLP drafts on this thread. You can make an Ask The Tropers query on the issue, holler, or PM a mod (the first of the three being preferable).

     Original OP 
I've been discussing with Warjay on DMs over the problematic issues of the TLP community as a whole, and I've started noticing this pattern from this draft. Based on the earlier Mario Pissing and Gay incidents, as well as observing the behavior of regulars in general, here are some issues I need to address.
  • The community is too bomb-happy. By that, I mean, when a stub draft is proposed, users are way to quick to drop the bombs the moment it's available, and this creates a feedback loop where other users are encouraged to drop bombs as well. It gets to the point where the purpose of dropping bombs to offset hats is lost, and people care more about raising the bomb count than anything else.
  • The community is unwilling to teach inexperienced sponsors. All too often, I've seen regulars not even trying to teach sponsors the steps needed to improve, and instead, will just give blunt statements that do nothing to help at all. (Ex: "No description! No examples! Bombing for lack of effort!")
  • The overall rudeness of regulars. From my observations, most of the regulars are very prone to delving into snarky and sarcastic comments that condemn sponsors, and this is only creating an unwelcoming, toxic environment.

This needs to be fixed because, from the looks of it, those who were not banned from the 5T incident or didn't participate at all didn't get the memo that this type of mentality is very toxic and is what leads to incidents like that in the first place.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 8th 2025 at 5:31:13 AM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#1026: Sep 25th 2022 at 9:02:19 PM

Should we add a rule about bashing / bombing a draft after it's already been discarded? People keep doing that and it's awkward getting them to stop if you don't want to also reply on the discarded draft.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
UFOYeah Since: Mar, 2022
#1027: Sep 25th 2022 at 9:51:40 PM

I think we should. Also, is it against some kind of rule to restore a discarded draft if said draft is a stub (or otherwise poorly made), especially when no effort is made to fix it?

Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#1028: Sep 25th 2022 at 11:33:28 PM

Surprized these aren't rules already.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#1029: Sep 26th 2022 at 1:08:32 PM

They might not not be explicitly forbidden but both count as bad etiquette. If people think they should be included in TLP guidelines, we can move the discussion to the outdated Administrivia pages thread.

Macron's notes
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#1030: Sep 26th 2022 at 1:09:46 PM

Yeah, I decided to bring it up here first to see if there was even support for the idea of stamping down on this.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#1031: Sep 26th 2022 at 2:01:57 PM

I would say something like "Leave discarded drafts alone. They need neither comments nor bombs".

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
wingedcatgirl mys. minty from the silly dimension from lurking (Holding A Herring) Relationship Status: Oh my word! I'm gay!
mys. minty from the silly dimension
#1032: Sep 26th 2022 at 3:38:23 PM

Maybe include a phrase to the effect of "If you think there's something salvageable in it, you can bring it to [one or more relevant threads] and see about making a draft of your own."

Suddenly I'm... still rotating Fallen London in my mind even though I've stopped actively playing it.
Traveler123 Don't look back, something may be gaining on you from In the trenches. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
Don't look back, something may be gaining on you
#1033: Oct 6th 2022 at 6:44:08 PM

Just putting this here to get the word out. I found out I overlooked Virtual Sidekick when I put Internal Computer Partner on the Launch Pad. I just did some serious tweaking of it in an attempt to salvage. Many people who hatted it may not have known about Virtual Sidekick, so those folks might want to give it another look and bomb if they don't think it's different enough from Virtual Sidekick to justify splitting the trope.

Edited by Traveler123 on Oct 6th 2022 at 5:44:19 AM

Walkinshadows Since: Jun, 2012
#1034: Oct 7th 2022 at 2:27:16 PM

This draft has 17 bombs and one hat that was likely added by the OP.

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#1035: Oct 7th 2022 at 3:41:10 PM

People are also kinda being rude. Not that the OP is helping with their attitude.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Yindee Just stoic wisdom. from New England Since: Jul, 2016
Just stoic wisdom.
#1036: Oct 7th 2022 at 3:46:36 PM

[up] If I'm included in that, whoops, not my intention. I just try to guide folks to Administrivia to read up on matters. I can rephrase.

Vehicle-Based Characterization | Grief-Induced Split | Locker Mail
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#1037: Oct 7th 2022 at 3:51:58 PM

No, not you, you're fine. It's the people who are like "bombs away" and being overly harsh in their critiques.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#1038: Oct 7th 2022 at 4:00:15 PM

Looks like the draft was put on hold (not by me and I don't think I did it by accident).

Edited by MacronNotes on Oct 7th 2022 at 8:58:33 AM

Macron's notes
Traveler123 Don't look back, something may be gaining on you from In the trenches. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
Don't look back, something may be gaining on you
#1039: Oct 7th 2022 at 5:07:15 PM

War Jay has a point. Any rudeness in the responses was caused by the immaturity/flippant attitude of the OP, so there's some blame there. I was pretty straightforward in my bomb.

Walkinshadows Since: Jun, 2012
#1040: Oct 7th 2022 at 5:44:33 PM

It has 19 bombs now so people are still dogpiling it.

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#1041: Oct 7th 2022 at 5:51:04 PM

There's a lot going on with the wiki right now so I'm sure the mods aren't super focused on it... but I'm also curious to know who put it on hold and why.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Traveler123 Don't look back, something may be gaining on you from In the trenches. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
Don't look back, something may be gaining on you
#1042: Oct 7th 2022 at 7:17:29 PM

I also have to point out that as the OP in question is a very recent joiner (2-3 days) and is already behaving like this on the TLP, there's good chance they're a sock puppet or a ban evader who's been singed on the TLP and is just venting.

crazysamaritan MOD NaNo 4328 / 50,000 from Lupin III Since: Apr, 2010
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
#1043: Oct 7th 2022 at 7:28:04 PM

I only applied the hold to make a quick change, but as the bomb count has gone up to 21 (completely unnecessary, there), I nuke and applied a lock to prevent restoring.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Traveler123 Don't look back, something may be gaining on you from In the trenches. Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: Gone fishin'
Don't look back, something may be gaining on you
#1044: Oct 7th 2022 at 7:42:29 PM

^ Noted on the completely unnecessary bombs and I admit my guilt in the matter. I usually don't bomb at that level but the OP's attitude rubbed me the wrong way. I'll remember restraint is a virtue going forward.

Amonimus the "Retromancer" from <<|Wiki Talk|>> (Sergeant) Relationship Status: In another castle
the "Retromancer"
#1045: Oct 11th 2022 at 12:13:29 PM

When tropes are unlaunched, do new examples or changes carry over to the draft?

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#1046: Oct 11th 2022 at 12:18:13 PM

No, unless people actively update the drafts themselves, the unlaunched draft won't have any of the post-launch changes.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
SamCurt Since: Jan, 2001
#1047: Oct 12th 2022 at 12:38:26 PM

"Spirit of Halloween". The sponsor has only one edit since October 2021 (July 6, 2022), and prevented the draft from being Up For Grabs by a simple "Bump" and refused to put it up to grabs. I have a sincere belief that they are hogging the draft. Are we allowed to opened a new draft with essentially the same content to override him in this particular case, as I suggested in the draft? It reads like it's malign to me.

Scientia et Libertas | Per Aspera ad Astra Nova
Walkinshadows Since: Jun, 2012
#1048: Oct 12th 2022 at 12:53:49 PM

I think the real issue is the sponsor being uncooperative and refusing to add examples to the draft.

But I am not sure your comment about “unilateral action” is appropriate either.

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#1049: Oct 12th 2022 at 1:00:39 PM

Yeah, a sponsor doesn't have to give up their draft if they really are interested in working on it, but they're also expected to do work and not doing so is in and of itself is problematic.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
MacronNotes (she/her) (Captain) Relationship Status: Less than three
(she/her)
#1050: Oct 12th 2022 at 1:09:25 PM

If you aren't a mod, you shouldn't be implying that unilateral action might be taken upon other tropers.

For now, I'll message Roy G Biv and tell them that they can't keep bumping the drafts while not putting in the effort to edit them.

Macron's notes

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