Trope names with outdated and/or offensive language

Before Transgender was renamed, some people got suspended for changing the language on Transsexual to be more modern, which led to the renaming effort. That's the closest other example of vandalism regarding offensive language that I can recall.

Edited by mightymewtron on Nov 2nd 2020 at 6:59:03 AM

TV Tropes is not reactionary, or at least we try very hard not to be. There needs to be a positive reason to change something that outweighs the default "keep" position. A trope title establishes itself in the zeitgeist and there are consequences to changing it.

We have lots of tropes that describe offensive things, but those are things that actually exist, or used to exist. You can't wish them away by changing their titles.

In this case, however, the use of "Eskimo" is not inherent to the concept of the trope. It's a placeholder that could be replaced with any real thing that generates skepticism over its existence. For this very reason, however, the title is non-indicative, because it cannot help but be mistaken for being specifically about whatever noun fills that spot.

We could try something boring and clinical like Arbitrary Real World Skepticism, but I don't see that as an improvement. So it's not enough that someone says, "this is a bad title and it should be changed;" there must be some path forward to a better title.

Before anyone asks, yes this means that The Red Stapler and Aluminum Christmas Trees are bad titles, but the same principle applies.

Umm... hold on a sec. I'm having a brainstorm. A little cartoon light bulb just appeared over my head. Eskimos Aren't Real and Aluminum Christmas Trees describe the same phenomenon, don't they? Merge 'em! Lumper to the rescue!

Edit: Crap, never mind. Bulb went out. One's about In-Universe skepticism while the other is about audience skepticism. Not that you could tell from the titles.

Edited by Fighteer on Nov 2nd 2020 at 7:01:41 AM

I like the trope name "Narwhals Aren't Real". I'm tempted to suggest "There Is No Queen of England", but that will become outdated when Elizabeth II inevitably dies and Britain has a king instead. I dislike "Inuit Aren't Real" since they are (or at least were) more often called Eskimos in popular media.

Edited by rjd1922 on Nov 9th 2020 at 12:52:30 PM

Would make a great redirect though.

Aluminum Christmas Trees still needs to be made an official Audience Reaction so I get the confusion.

Are narwhals more obviously real than Inuit? I know it's the page quote but is it indicative enough for the title itself?

Y'all are missing the point. Any example of the trope used in the title will create confusion. Replacing "Eskimo" because it's offensive is one thing, but we can also try to fix the fundamental problem with the title while we're at it.

Edited by Fighteer on Nov 3rd 2020 at 7:05:09 AM

Yep. Something like Thought Real Thing Was Fictional is blander but clearer.

I prefer Narwhals Arent Real as well.

Inuit Arent Real would be an improvement, but here's hoping that the Inuit don't take this trope seriously.

Narwhals Arent Real sounds safer and more concise.

Any talk of new names should normally go on TRS... except that the attempt to put it through TRS failed.

A rejection of a poor OP is not a rejection of all future repair attempts.

What I'm saying is, we should talk about potential renames in the new TRS thread, whenever that may be.

Again, the reason it was declined was because of the poor, evidence-lacking OP. Just make a better version with some evidence and it might open.

Handy Helper is a trope about a marginalized group so I figured this might be an appropriate thread to discuss it in. The title isn't necessarily using outdated language but I feel like it's kind of vague; it could refer to any person who helps others or confused with Helping Hands, but the trope is specifically about an assistant who helps a disabled person do things their disability causes issues with. I wanted to get a second opinion before posting in TRS, however. What do you all think?

If you think it could be misused, you'll need to back it up with evidence by doing a wick check.

Of the two, I think Helping Hands is the one with an unclear title. But that's not really relevant to this thread.

So the AP Stylebook tweeted about not using ableist language like describing shows as "schizophrenic" and my first thought was "yeah that's true, you should not do that".

My second thought was "fuck, Schizophrenic Difficulty and Schizo Tech".

I know we're not exactly run by the AP style guides, but the principle kinda holds. Late-00s tvtropes really did just decide to say "schizophrenic" to mean "inconsistent", didn't we...

Honestly, I never found those titles very descriptive anyway. "Schizo" is used interchangeably with "erratic" and "inconsistent" which is bad enough, but Schizo Tech is more specifically about anachronism.

I agree on this one. The use of "schizo" is itself kind of anachronistic and not really descriptive.

I think they're complaining too much. Words like "mental" and "insane" can be used in a positive context, like "That was a mental party! Far out!" or "Woah, that was an insane combo, dude!" Still, while Schizophrenic Difficulty is fine as "inconsistent" (as far as I know, the trope is used properly), Schizo Tech being "anachronistic" sounds less appropriate, I have not enough knowledge of that trope to say more.

Edited by Piterpicher on Nov 10th 2020 at 6:07:10 PM

It'd be an easy change to turn Schizophrenic Difficulty into something clearer, like Inconsistent Difficulty. Former could still be a redirect, even. Schizo Tech has way more wicks so that's when it gets iffy, but it's also got a less indicative name.

Agree on renaming to Inconsistent Difficulty.

I didn't even know Schizo Tech was named after Schizophrenia. I just thought it was some weird sci-fi word.

The difference between using mental/crazy and schizophrenic as adjectives: mental/crazy are very generic words, scizophrenia is a specific condition/spectrum of conditions.

Schizo is actually a root word meaning split or divided, it's known for being the basis of the term schizophrenia and may be used in a derogative context, but the word by itself is not offensive like "retard the music."