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Making up for lost LGBTQ+ tropes

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The cutting of LGBTQ+ tropes like Bi The Way and Badass Gay for not being tropeworthy have resulted in a lot of concerns that we have fewer positive LGBTQ+ tropes, which makes it harder to find appropriate ways to note LGBTQ+ characters in media if they don't fit another LGBTQ+ trope without throwing it into the description.

There's been discussion about whether we could implement some super trope for cases where being LGBTQ+ is relevant to the story, but the scope of this is difficult to figure out. Can we implement new LGBTQ+ tropes that reflect the significance of LGBTQ+ characters and aren't People Sit on Chairs?

Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 17th 2024 at 12:14:40 PM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#476: Dec 14th 2020 at 5:04:28 PM

So far there's three examples, or at least there was when I last checked.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#478: Dec 18th 2020 at 11:05:19 PM

Hey, I realized that a lot of works will feature LGBT representation, but only at the end of the work- especially at the end of a series, which means it's too late for any networks to cancel it. It also serves as a quick "...oh, and gay people exist too" acknowledgement without having to devote the time to actually developing the characters and their relationship (depending on the work, of course). This might be tropeworthy.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#479: Dec 18th 2020 at 11:09:16 PM

Sounds like a good idea, but I have the feeling it could decay into a complaint magnet.

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WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#480: Dec 18th 2020 at 11:10:59 PM

That's a solid point. It's definitely a thing though. The question is, are we able to handle writing about it? Or would it decay into Flame Bait like that Queerbaiting draft did?

Edited by WarJay77 on Dec 18th 2020 at 2:11:40 PM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#481: Dec 18th 2020 at 11:17:14 PM

The question is, are we able to handle writing about it?

I doubt it.

Edited by nrjxll on Dec 18th 2020 at 1:17:38 PM

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#482: Dec 19th 2020 at 7:06:47 AM

Yeah uh that devolving into bashing is kinda something that will like probably happen. In fact I'd be surprised if it didn't.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
TheMountainKing Since: Jul, 2016
#483: Dec 20th 2020 at 12:15:20 AM

I can't see any way that wouldn't immediately devolve into bashing.

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#484: Dec 20th 2020 at 12:23:52 AM

Yeah, point taken. It's definitely not one of the more positive tropes, even when the actual characters and relationships are portrayed positively.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Malady (X-Troper)
#485: Dec 22nd 2020 at 8:00:45 PM

We don't want tropes that have to be managed by Locked Edits and constant checking of Related Pages to root out misuse, right?

There might be a Worldbuilding Finale idea, to generalize it...

Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
Reymma RJ Savoy from Edinburgh Since: Feb, 2015 Relationship Status: Wanna dance with somebody
RJ Savoy
#486: Dec 27th 2020 at 2:53:18 PM

Do we have a trope about a franchise playing it safe until it has a secure audience? It is often said that the first The Wheel of Time book is the most clichéd, because the publisher feared it would not sell otherwise. Would seem like a supertrope to what Warjay talked about.

Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
Malady (X-Troper)
#488: Dec 27th 2020 at 3:27:09 PM

Executive Meddling is Trivia, and I dunno if we can play with that.

Protection from Editors is YMMV and we can't Invert that?

Edited by Malady on Dec 27th 2020 at 3:27:20 AM

Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#489: Dec 27th 2020 at 3:36:28 PM

I mean, a YMMV trope for something like "Crazier at the end" could work, but that's outside the scope of this discussion.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
TenseiNocturne Since: Oct, 2020
#490: Dec 29th 2020 at 4:31:43 PM
Thumped: Wow. That was rude. Too many of this kind of thump will bring a suspension. Please keep it civil.
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#491: Dec 29th 2020 at 5:06:43 PM

We have launched new LGBT tropes like Queer Colors, and we've supported other outside drafts like Gay Euphemism and Closet Gay that cover aspects of the LGBT experience we have yet to cover. We're also working on Gush About Representation You Like - I think we could take that sandbox to TLP just to acquire more feedback, even though I'm nervous about the backlash.

[down] Oh, I had a feeling it was that guy, but I couldn't tell and didn't want to make any broad claims...

Edited by mightymewtron on Dec 29th 2020 at 8:28:24 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Fighteer MOD Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#492: Dec 29th 2020 at 5:25:09 PM

[up][up]The sockpuppet has been banned.

Edited by Fighteer on Dec 29th 2020 at 8:25:16 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#493: Dec 29th 2020 at 5:31:31 PM

[up][up] Same. Moving on, since draft launchers are able to discard upon creation, we can just discard a protentional Gush About Representation You Like TLP in case it does cause backlash and then carry on. Doubt anyone not part of this thread is gonna know it's in a sandbox too, anyway.

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WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#494: Dec 29th 2020 at 5:34:05 PM

I say we bring it to TLP, though my only question is if we'll let people freely edit the page.

As for [up][up][up][up]...Yeahhhh...I hollered because of how sus it was.

Edited by WarJay77 on Dec 29th 2020 at 8:34:43 AM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
crazysamaritan NaNo 4328 / 50,000 from Lupin III Since: Apr, 2010
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
#495: Dec 29th 2020 at 5:37:10 PM

What bad thing can open editing cause that isn't covered by existing rules?

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#496: Dec 29th 2020 at 5:42:24 PM

An editing crash- TLP has no edit timer.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
acrobox Since: Nov, 2010
#497: Jan 6th 2021 at 10:09:44 PM

hey i'm new to this discussion and kinda lurking to get up to speed. applaud the discussions happening here.

i've been active on the badass clean up threads so glad to know that we're trying to find solutions to clean up those tropes without the erasure of good representation.

Stage7-4 Since: Nov, 2014
#498: Jan 20th 2021 at 12:46:52 AM

My two cents is while I can see why the tropes had to be removed, they did seem to fill a void for other positive LGBT tropes in media. Even if that was just largely to say "this show has an LGBT character."

A difference for the LGBT community compared to most other groups is there's no immediately obvious signifier that a character is gay, trans, ace, etc. At least, not like a character having black skin or red hair. The fact that they're apart of the Queer community typically has to be revealed somehow, either through direct labelling (PS I am gay), or outside information (author tweets), or queercoding (having a pride flag in the character's bedroom). We still live in a world where characters are assumed to be straight and whatever gender they present as until proven wrong. And to me it seems like if most queer characters have to reveal themselves to the audience, then that's tropeworthy. Several other tropes already contain bits and pieces of this idea (Sorry, I'm Gay for example).

So maybe a tropes like "Queer revealing moment" or something. When their status becomes explicit in-narrative (and Word of Gay for when out of narrative).

Take Soldier 76 from Overwatch as an example, a character assumed straight until years later finally showing a picture of his former boyfriend Vincent.

Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#499: Jan 20th 2021 at 12:54:23 AM

I swear we have something like Queer Revealing Moment already — if we don't, Missing Supertrope potential right there.

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Malady (X-Troper)
#500: Jan 20th 2021 at 4:28:22 AM

There's Coming Straight Story... Forced Out of the Closet...

LGBT Awakening...

How many tropes should reference each other but don't...?

Edited by Malady on Jan 20th 2021 at 4:30:45 AM

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