I mean, watching a recap of BTAS episodes has made me realize that Bruce actually has a lot more happiness than the show implies, namely when he helps children or make a positive difference in people's lives.
Having him be a man who can't understand what the hell happiness is means he has a greater chance of becoming a supervillain... or really anything written by Frank Miller.
TNBA was absolutely a flanderization of how no-fun, grim and cold Batman was in comparison to BTAS, yeah, so much so that the rest of the DCAU mostly dedicated itself to either trying to rewrite him with more of a balanced personality (as in Batman Beyond) or hazily used it until more or less ignoring it (as in Justice League).
The Mask of the Phantasm clip, on the other hand, is less "I can never be happy, ever," and more "I can never have a life outside the mission." Phantasm Bats was BTAS Bats, and was capable of brevity, but the plot of that one was him soon after becoming Batman, fully believing his life would be nothing else.
Edited by KnownUnknown on May 19th 2021 at 6:06:23 AM
I think too many writers can't imagine a naturalistic Batman being content and continuing to be Batman, which would seem to be a function of characterizing his mission as punishing evildoers rather than protecting the innocent ("I will avenge my pain" rather than "I will keep what happened to me from happening to others"). You don't have to go all the way back to the Silver Age for a happy Batman; Batman in the 70's, while his personality had it's dark corners, was pretty well adjusted, too. The Lego Batman Movie just finally pushed the grimdark Batman we've had since Frank Miller made Batman's inner life one long dramatic monologue up to the level of parody (you could argue it had been there for awhile and they just wouldn't admit it).
Frankly, I'd really like to see someone try to do a serious (super-hero serious, anyway) movie take on Batman and Robin (with Robin as a teenager). Given that Dick Grayson possibly represents Batman's greatest success, I think it could do a lot to shine a lot on a different part of his personality. These days, most other media interpretations of Batman seem to try to avoid Robin for as long as they can.
Or hell, just give us that Nightwing movie they keep teasing us with.
Edited by Robbery on May 20th 2021 at 5:26:37 AM
I have always interpreted Bruce as being emotionless as a front to keep people he doesn't trust at a distance, and once you earn his trust, say like the League or Bat-Family, you see that he has a lot of emotions, which can even lead to some humor.
Edited by Bullman on May 20th 2021 at 8:03:34 AM
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup threadYou frequently hear people pointing out that only a damaged individual would dress up like a bat and fight crime, except that in the DC Universe, Bruce is hardly the first or only person to do something like that. In the world he lives in, while an extreme step perhaps, it makes perfect sense. Seems to me that if you're suspending your disbelief enough to accept a world of super-heroes, you should be able to accept that one need not be crazy or otherwise damaged to be one.
I’d say people run with it in regards to Batman cause it makes him look more badass as it makes his identity more of an epic legend. It’s not just a secret identity, it’s an illness that forcibly compels, a glorious curse that ascends him to an idea.
Like this moment in The Dark Knight Returns where he finds his strength again using pretty striking words, “Your never finished with me.”
Edited by slimcoder on May 20th 2021 at 10:49:46 AM
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
It also make him tragic for a couple of reason: it make look Bruce as someone born on tragedy, it also make look not so different than the "freaks" he fight since he have a near neorutoic fixation with justice and order that is not disimilar to joker need to put "smiles" or two face dualistic view of everything.
Batman and his Rogues Gallery only seem to be crazy because for the longest time, many major stories don't really emphasize the fact he lives in a Shared Universe with other superheroes. I mean, I don't recall anyone mentioning other heroes in The Killing Joke for example and if you only read the Killing Joke, you get the impression that Batman is the only superhero.
Likewise, Batman: The Animated Series deemphasizes on the possibility of a larger DCAU. It was simply Batman's realistic world. No Superman, Wonder Woman, The Flash, etc. Any super-powered characters are given more "realism" like Zatanna doing regular magician tricks instead of real magic or Poison Ivy using chemicals and crossbows instead of mentally controlling plants.
When you introduce Superman and the rest of the DCAU, suddenly Batman and his cast don't seem crazy. There are superheroes with cat themes, heroes with knight themes, heroes with bright flashy colors and spandex. You got ghosts and aliens running around as well as many other costumed supervillains like Captain Cold and the Trickster.
In short, in a world of superheroes, Batman has to operate much differently compared to what he does when he's a solo hero. It's just that writers can't fathom that idea and wants to eat their cake and have it too.
Sometimes I wonder what's even the point of making Arkham Asylum... well, an asylum.
I know it was originally a place to throw Batman's colorful, costumed villains into one place as opposed to regular prison out of a Hollywood misinterpretation of mental illness (which is embarrassing and outright wrong in modern times) but honestly, many of Batman's villains are not insane.
The Joker is crazy, but he can tell right from wrong and it's clear he's not unique in terms of DC villains with Practically Joker clown motifs.
Really, I think it's better to make Arkham Asylum into Arkham State Prison since, let's be honest, it functions more as a prison rather than a hospital to help anyone.
There are stories that rely on it being a bedlam hospital like A serious house on a serious earth though.
Plus the lore of the Arkham family is pretty interesting. I feel turning Arkham into another prison would take out a part of the mythos's identity.
Besides, some sane villains go there like Freeze because only Arkham can provide the sub-zero cells he needs.
"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"I would say it's about half and half, it's why there is also Blackgate Prison for the violent but not "disturbed" villains. Scarecrow, Scarface, Calendar Man and similar villains have psychotic obsessions but Bane, Croc and Clayface just have special needs to keep them locked up. It's why the Arkham games even specified that Blackgate was damaged by a fire and that forced them to consolidate all the villains to Arkham.
Comics are just words and pictures. You can do anything with words and pictures.To me, Arkham Asylum does work if Batman is the only superhero in the universe but when you expand it to the wider DC universe, the problems of that place rises exponentially.
In a Shared Universe, would it not make sense to send Poison Ivy and Mr. Freeze to Stryker Prison at Metropolis since their place would be dealing with super-powered villains that Superman defeats? As opposed to putting them into an easily escapable Asylum that meant to cure patients, not contain superpowered beings. Likewise, if Arkham has the capacity to contain super-powered beings, why not just admit it's a place to put supervillains and not a hospital it pretends to be.
Also, some of the obsessions that Batman's Rogues Gallery have don't really need an overly complex justification to sent to Arkham (and in many ways comes across as understanding as Black Manta with autism). The Riddler leaving clues at his crime scenes? Is it stupidity or is the Riddler in it for the thrills rather than the money? I mean, Lex Luthor wasted several million dollars on a fake presidential campaign just to tick Superman off, yet he just goes to regular prison.
My point is that Arkham needs a revamp to better fit with the modern times and the post-MCU world where superheroes and villains are not considered as crazy or campy anymore. If the Riddler from the upcoming Batman movie is any indication, it's that some villains don't need some "mental disorder" justification to have a gimmick of riddles.
Well, none of the live action Riddlers had the riddle compulsion thing. Gorshin's was just nuts and classic riddler's backstory was that he cheated at puzzles and nothing else, and Carrey's was just obsessed with Bruce. It won't be that big a surprise if this Riddler doesn't either.
Edited by Joshbones on May 21st 2021 at 12:34:31 PM
Honestly, the whole riddle compulsion thing seems to be the result of a Superfriend meme where the Riddler is the worst villain of the Legion of Doom because he keeps giving clues of the villains' plans to the superheroes, thus giving them the chance to derail the villains' daily schemes.
Nevermind the fact the Superfriends show is a dumbed version of the DC universe, with Darkseid's main goal being to marry Wonder Woman for some reason.
The Riddler compulsion goes back to the '60s under Schwartz, way before superfriends. It just never got treated seriously outside of a few choice stories.
There's an issue of the Batman Adventures that had try to escape Arkham and live in peace but he subconsciously let clues, and I always really liked that one.
Edited by Joshbones on May 21st 2021 at 1:26:00 AM
I will said that carrey, as campy as it was, really feel he have some obsession with bruce wayne that reaaaaaally feel off at times.
but yeah I will said the problem with batmans is that they hark back to the time were people were not mentally ill but "insane" that it regular people who in theory can do stuff but suffer something that shatter their perception of reallity.
I mean, the assylum was name as reference to lovecraft, batman villas are less mentally ill and more player who hit to low their sanity bar in call of cthulhu.
"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"Prime 1 Studio, famous for their popular culture statues, has revealed shots for their statue of the Matt Reeves Batman!
Weird observation: not only does it *appear* to be bulkier than what we've seen from the trailer, but some of these shots have a head sculpt that completely whites out the eyeholes, harkening back to how Batman's cowl eyes are interpreted in the cartoons and comics.
Is it for aesthetic purposes? Or is it our hint of a second Batsuit we've heard rumors of?
Edited by TargetmasterJoe on May 22nd 2021 at 11:11:55 AM

Ironic cause in the Silver Age he was basically a huge boy scout, even compared to Supes.
"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."