Christmas worms
Opening.
Funny how the Six Student Clique TRS was opened around the same time. I was about to say there that it's as tropeworthy as Five Races. By which I mean Five Races is not at all tropeworthy and a duplicate to Standard Fantasy Setting.
Yeah, the name is misleading. As discussed in the previous thread, I vote to retool this page into a broader Standard Fantasy Races as a stubtrope to Standard Fantasy Setting.
The world's forgotten boy (he/him)
Agreed to rework it into Standard Fantasy Races. A description rewrite seems to be in order, ditch those "stout" and "high men" things and focus more on actual specific races.
Final Duet
Petal Dance
*ring*
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
She's a cute red monster
We'll show them. We'll show them all.
she/her
I'm not seeing any disagreement. Should we get a crowner to formalize it, or just go ahead with drafting a new description?
Gentleman Troper!
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Well, the only thing is that Standard Fantasy Setting already covers races, and seems to do a pretty good job at that.
So unless we propose to redefine that page as "standard fantasy everything-except-races", then everything we're going to write on this page is going to be redundant.
Standard Fantasy Setting also includes many other concepts that have pages, such as Standard Royal Court. Should we eliminate those as well? Standard Fantasy Setting is a very broad supertrope, it's fine to have subtropes for specific aspects of it.
Agreed with everyone else that it's best to retool this trope by renaming it into Standard Fantasy Races and expanding on the current five entries, since the way it's currently used is too close to the shoehorning issues that Five-Man Band suffered from.
I disagree with the idea that Standard Fantasy Setting is sufficient, as it's more of a referential index that does not go into enough detail on the various racial tropes to pick up the slack. It's mostly a broad index. Likewise, though Fantastic Sapient Species Tropes (which is listed on that page) sounds like it would be a good substitute for Standard Fantasy Races going just by the name, it's just an index with little direct information of its own. So it would still be useful to have the information currently under Five Races in expanded form as the new Standard Fantasy Races page.
Our prospective Standard Fantasy Races page can then be listed on Standard Fantasy Setting the same way that Functional Magic on that page exists as a trope in its own right despite being a supertrope to several more specific tropes listed underneath.
In other words, the revised version would go from this:
- Post-Tolkien, this usually has at least three of the standard Five Races of heroic peoples:
- Dwarves (The Mighty Glacier)
- Elves (The Fragile Speedster)
- Humans
- As an alternative, Humans can be divided into races. Normally, this is done by using hair color and/or a Fantasy Counterpart Culture.
- Any of the above being called by a different name is allowed. That applies to humans, too.
- Some cases may further divide humans by the natives and the modern kid who dropped in.
- Fantastic Sapient Species Tropes in general. Since this is an index, and since the Standard Fantasy Races master page will go into more detail on this particular aspect, it may be more appropriate to migrate this to that page.
To this:
- Standard Fantasy Races
- Fantastic Sapient Species Tropes in general.
- Dwarves (The Mighty Glacier)
- Elves (The Fragile Speedster)
- Humans
- As an alternative, Humans can be divided into races. Normally, this is done by using hair color and/or a Fantasy Counterpart Culture.
- Any of the above being called by a different name is allowed. That applies to humans, too.
- Some cases may further divide humans by the natives and the modern kid who dropped in.
Edited by AlleyOop on Sep 28th 2020 at 8:03:34 AM
Christmas worms
Clock is set.
Gentleman Troper!
Looks like we have consensus for a rename, or do you still want a crowner for that?
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
Power Bomberman tester
No need. I'll just holler to call consensus, since it's unanymous.
Petal Dance
Gentleman Troper!
Looks unanimous to me, but here's a crowner
anyway.
Edited by Spark9 on Nov 5th 2020 at 9:00:42 AM
Crown Description:
What would be the best way to fix the page?
We've recently cut Five Bad Band and Fantasy Axis of Evil (i.e. "five evil races"), and the same issue appears here as well.
Existing trope Standard Fantasy Setting covers standard fantasy races, such as elves, dwarves, The Horde, the Always Chaotic Evil race, dragons, and so forth.
This trope, however, argues that fantasy settings have exactly five races, each with their own "hat" that matches one of the roles in the Five-Man Band. Thus, the five races are "tough" (big guy), "magical/technological" (smart guy), human (lancer), "high human" (hero), and cute (heart). If that sounds a little bit too neat to be true, well, that's precisely my point.
The issue is that almost no fantasy work has exactly five races. E.g. Trope Codifier The Lord of the Rings has thirteen, Harry Potter has over a dozen, Dungeons & Dragons has too many to count, and even The Belgariad, a high fantasy setting with 5 as its Arc Number, has more than five races.
Effectively, this page means "a setting has many races, but we can cherrypick five out of them to shoehorn into five broad roles". And that is just not a trope. I suggest cutting this and redirecting to either Standard Fantasy Setting, or to the existing list of fantasy races.
Totals:
By my count, that's 98% misuse. This shows it's just not the case that fantasy settings have exactly five races that match exactly these (pretty broad) hats.
Edited by Spark9 on Aug 19th 2020 at 12:47:08 PM