has made a decision that all articles in the Let's Play namespace (list of pages in that namespace) should be moved to other namespaces.
Since let's plays are usually video-based, the target namespace is usually WebVideo/. However, some are text-based, and the consensus was to handle the namspacing of those on a case-by-case basis, with Blog/, Fanfic/, and Literature/ brought up as potential targets.
Before any given article is transplanted, we should confirm that it meets the standards for being a TV Tropes work article. Note that these often serve as hybrid articles for their creators in much the same way as the Music namespace. If there is insufficient content, the articles end up becoming about the creators, violating our "no troping real people" policy.
The crucial question is whether the article has any tropable, creative content. This means that it's more than just "Alisha plays games and makes faces." What counts as tropable, creative content? Here are some examples.
- Creating a fictional/roleplaying narrative that is distinct from the game being played or the real person doing the LP.
- Using the game as a medium to craft original content: songs, videos, machinima, and so on.
- "MST'ing" or creatively riffing on the game's content, as long as it's sufficiently transformative.
What are not criteria for a tropable Let's Play by themselves?
- Adopting a quirky personality, cracking jokes, making funny faces, or overreacting to jump scares.
- Cosplaying, playing with toys, unboxing merchandise, etc.
- Having a "gimmick" that makes them stand out, such as a repeated Catchphrase, eating loudly on microphone, or calling their viewers "Doggo fam".
- Playing games in a particular way (speedrunning, evil runs, no-kill runs, etc.) that fall within what it is possible to do in the game itself, with or without mods.
- Modding the game.
- Being very popular.
- Having lots of memes arise in their fandom.
Note that the same general principles apply to any Web Video creator, especially those whose main work is in news, reviews, vlogging, and/or reaction videos.
There are a few outliers that will need to be handled on a case-by-case basis.
- After-Action Report: I would move it to literature, although it could be considered fanfic.
- Liveblogs, which are probably not tropable.
Web Video cleanup sandbox
This project has several purposes related to all things Web Video:
- Cleaning up the WebVideo index
- Cleaning up the WebVideo/ namespace to move pages that belong elsewhere
- Cleaning up individual Web Video pages that have massive issues
Overview
The easy-seeming part when I started on Web Video (the index) was just removing things not even located in the namespace— found in Creator, Film, Web Animation, etc. Then I started noticing there were many things put in Web Video (the namespace) that were basically Creator pages, lots of Let's Play, other video game streaming that doesn't currently have an index, other misuses in index and/or namespace placement...
- original live action, meaning not animated or reusing existing footage;
- narrative/creative, a bit unclear, but it's not someone simply reviewing another work/reacting to other works/playing through another work;
- a work, which is... a work, not a creator.
) is much more broad:
"Live-action videos and video-based Lets Plays originally or only released online. Covers both YouTube videos and web-exclusive series, but does not include those that belong in the WebAnimation/ namespace. For big-budget series exclusive to streaming services such as Netflix, use Series/ or the appropriate animation namespace instead." — Not limited to original or live action footage, narrative works, etc. However, people have mistakenly created Web Animation pages in this namespace, made what are essentially creator pages, typed it as "Webvideo", etc.
:
Reaction channels tend to straddle a line here, but are not generally tropable unless they create some sort of distinct creative endeavor rather than stare at a video and laugh a bit. Also it helps if they are reacting to fiction, not to real life. The latter may be entertaining but falls into the same general category as gossip. We can trope these only for their use of production and artistic tropes, not for their topics.
-
No Analysis Channel index— corrected! - No index for non-Let's Play video game streaming unless they're on Twitch. If they don't fall into the Let's Play format and aren't on Twitch, where do they go?
- No
Gag Dub orGag Sub index - Where should we put channels based on prank calls, scam-baiting, other audio-based things where the video is incidental?
Pages identified for cleanup:
- A Dose of Buckley — see this ATT for more info
- The Mysterious Mr. Enter and subpages — issues include troping the creator and not the works
- The Nostalgia Critic and subpages — see this project thread
- Smosh and subpages — Smosh is a channel, and the pages have multiple works (may need a hard split)
- Thomas Sanders — Creator, lots of biographical details, previously hard split for Sanders Sides but may need another
See also:
- Cleanup: Review/Let's Play YMMV Tropes
- TLP: Actual Play genre/index
Just the index cleanup itself is a considerable project, figuring out what stays and what needs a different index, but there are also many pages with significant issues to clean. This is a very big project, but I've seen other people notice these issues, too. I hope we can at least get the index under control.
(![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
For clarity and re: review stuff. Continue to edit as things occur that are useful to keep at the top of the thread.)
Edited by GastonRabbit on Dec 2nd 2023 at 9:02:00 AM
I'm helping!
I'm pretty sure Creator.Da Things 1 belongs at WebVideo.Da Things. Among many other reasons, there's the fact that in her latest retrospective (Patreon-locked but I'm hoping at least some of you happen to also be patrons <.<; ) Ellie pretty clearly refers to DaThings as a series she produces.
Edited by wingedcatgirl on Dec 7th 2020 at 2:46:44 PM
Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Bumping this thread after two months. I have a question about Lindsay Ellis—is her current series even tropable? Like, do you think there are fictional elements in it, or is it all commentary? I'm pretty sure we don't trope opinions, so what should be done?
Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Feb 6th 2021 at 2:13:00 PM
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Angry babby
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
We can trope video essayists, especially those who discuss media and the tropes that occur in them, which Lindsay does in her work. It's still about fiction, and it still involves tropes, even if it's Conversational Troping.
Edited by mightymewtron on Feb 6th 2021 at 2:24:50 PM
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Ah, OK, I was just running it here to check.
I'm helping!
Upon further consideration, Creator.Da Things 1 might be better split, into WebVideo.Da Things (the YTP series) and Creator.Ellie Thomas (the woman behind the YTP; the current page points out that she's running a review series and created a Forever Alone Guy vector, facts which wouldn't really belong on a DaThings-specific page)
problem is we don't really have much tropeage on her other content... dunno how much we need to make a creator page.
Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.
I'm helping!
So we've split out Da Things and are about to rewick everything... and by "split" we mean "copied 99% of the page, leaving out nothing but misuse and ZCEs". Nothing else on the page is even about Ellie as a general creator except the stuff above the example line.
What are the actual standards for Creator pages? Wait no there's a thread for that we'll just go there
e: ... there is a thread for Creator pages in general, right? That's not something we just assumed?
Edited by wingedcatgirl on Apr 11th 2021 at 10:12:55 AM
Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.
~wingedcatgirl: There's Improving work and creator page descriptions over in Long-term, and a thread that's been untouched for several years, Fixing Creator/ pages to remove personal tropes.
Were you perhaps thinking of Creator Page Guidelines?
I'm helping!
Nah, we know about the guidelines page. Thought for sure we had a "creator pages cleanup" thread of some nature. Hrm.
Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.
Lost in Space
Moving this to Long-Term and bumping because Wiki Talk has made a decision that all articles in the Let's Play namespace should be moved to Web Video.
Before any given article is transplanted, we should confirm that it meets the standards for being a TV Tropes work article. Note that these often serve as hybrid articles for their creators in much the same way as the Music namespace. If there is insufficient content, the articles end up becoming about the creators, violating our "no troping real people" policy.
The crucial question is whether the article has any tropable, creative content. This means that it's more than just "Alisha plays games and makes faces." What counts as tropable, creative content? Here are some examples.
- Creating a fictional/roleplaying narrative that is distinct from the game being played or the real person doing the LP.
- Using the game as a medium to craft original content: songs, videos, machinima, and so on.
- "MST'ing" or creatively riffing on the game's content, as long as it's sufficiently transformative.
What are not criteria for a tropable Let's Play by themselves?
- Adopting a quirky personality, cracking jokes, making funny faces, or overreacting to jump scares.
- Cosplaying, playing with toys, unboxing merchandise, etc.
- Having a "gimmick" that makes them stand out, such as a repeated Catchphrase, eating loudly on microphone, or calling their viewers "Doggo fam".
- Playing games in a particular way (speedrunning, evil runs, no-kill runs, etc.) that fall within what it is possible to do in the game itself, with or without mods.
- Modding the game.
- Being very popular.
- Having lots of memes arise in their fandom.
Note that the same general principles apply to any Web Video creator, especially those whose main work is in news, reviews, vlogging, and/or reaction videos.
Edit: There are a few outliers that will need to be handled on a case-by-case basis.
- After-Action Report: Move to the Blog/ namespace.
- Liveblogs, which are probably not tropable but would go to Blog/ as well.
Edited by Fighteer on Mar 9th 2022 at 5:16:18 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
All right. I'll start with a question. Is Creator.Ray Narvaez Jr in the right namespace? At first look, it appears the troper who made the page should've put it in Web Video. The description mentions he does voice acting, but as far as I can tell, there is nothing pertaining to his VA work in the trope list. All of the tropes either trope him as a person, e.g.
- Comically Missing the Point: A Running Gag is that, when someone else makes a reference to something, Ray will pretend he doesn't get it and thinks it's from something else. Often by saying something along the lines of "I get it! It's a/an [X] reference/joke!", whereas [X] is not what's being referenced.
- Happily Married: As of March 2nd, 2020, Ray has married his girlfriend of six years, fellow streamer Tina Dayton.
- Verbal Tic: When a word or name pops up that he doesn't know how to pronounce, he'll make a quick incredulous "Mmm" sound before attempting (or shortening/replacing it with something easier). This most frequently happens with the usernames of people on streams who donate or subscribe.
or him playing video games, e.g.
- The Ace: While he has poor showings from time to time, he regularly whoops the other guys in competitive multiplayer.
- Consummate Liar: He lies fairly often. Although they're usually harmless lies for laughs, he sometimes uses them to great effect in winning Let's Plays.
- Failed a Spot Check: In Let's Play Minecraft episode 4, he makes a big deal about the lack of trees in their starting biome, slowing everyone down in their challenge to reach bedrock since wood's pretty important. Geoff later reveals there was a tree right there at the starting spot (not 10 blocks away), Ray just missed it.
- Jump Scare: When an Enderman kills him from behind, Ray freaks the fuck out.
- The Quiet One: Moreso early on, though he talks as often as everyone else, he was just this compared to how how loud they were being.
- Tranquil Fury: You could feel his frustration when Gavin keeps him from winning twice in Let's Play Minecraft episode 37. Look at Sore Loser for details.
Unless I'm failing to see something very obvious, none of this strikes me as worthy of its own page.
Cake's just a shot away. (he/him)
Here's the list of pages in the LetsPlay/ namespace. I thought I'd add that some let's plays are text-based instead of video-based, so any articles that fit our criteria for a tropable work should go under Literature/ or Fanfic/ instead (we haven't really come to a decision on which namespace to use for those).
Lost in Space
I agree that the article should move to Web Video if there is any tropable content, but it doesn't look like there is from a cursory look. It's all about him as a person or how he plays the games.
Edited by Fighteer on Mar 9th 2022 at 5:12:57 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Ignore this
Edited by themayorofsimpleton on Mar 9th 2022 at 5:16:22 AM
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
Edit:
Edited by costanton11 on Mar 9th 2022 at 4:13:30 AM
Blog/ ?
Lost in Space
Yes, Blog/ works. I added the Let's Play stuff to the OP.
Edited by Fighteer on Mar 9th 2022 at 5:15:53 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Is it possible for the mods to pin a post other than the OP? I think pinning Fighteer's post might be a good idea for the purposes of this thread.
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Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
Yeah, I think we should sticky Fighteer's post.
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Cake's just a shot away. (he/him)
Only the first post can be pinned. I had to copy Fighteer's post's contents to the opening post.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Mar 9th 2022 at 4:16:51 AM
You can't always get what you want.
Lost in Space
We can't sticky anything other than the OP, unfortunately, and as written it's a big bulky for a header post.
Edit: You stomped on my edit to the OP. Oh, well, I guess it's fine that way.
Edited by Fighteer on Mar 9th 2022 at 5:17:22 AM
"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Now a lurker. Thanks for everything. | he/him
Oh interesting. I didn't know that.
Anyway GastonRabbit edited the OP to include the post so it's moot now.
TRS Queue | Works That Require Cleanup of Complaining | Troper Wall
the Retromancer
Bonnie's Artistic Cousin
Works for me.
I've definitely come across a lot of questionable LP pages when wick cleaning, but I don't remember what any of them are. The one I know that needs to be preserved in Web Video/ is LetsPlay.Captain Sauce, because he makes creative content out of the playthroughs, especially the Sims one.
Edited by WarJay77 on Mar 9th 2022 at 5:22:40 AM
Current Project: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Should Creator.Ryan George be at WebVideo.Ryan George since all his work is currently in that medium? Or does the fact he has another work complicate things? When does a web video creator page become just a creator page?
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.