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GastonRabbit His own thang from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sep 12th 2020 at 4:24:27 PM

Re: Fan Dumb wicks:

There may have a lot of wicks, but since it's Flame Bait, they're not supposed to be there, except possibly with either in-universe examples or other Flame Bait pages. This is more or less the same situation as Mary Sue and its subtropes not allowing examples (regardless of whether they have any off-page).

Edited by GastonRabbit on Sep 12th 2020 at 6:27:05 AM

Any questions?
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Sep 13th 2020 at 2:13:45 AM

OK, since I was getting a bit confused myself I'll write this as a three section post:

Resolved (and punted)

Pending

  • 24-Hour Trope Clock
  • About the Author
  • Anime Fanspeak: I think perhaps it might be a good idea to turn this into a subindex to this one?
  • Editing Works: I notice that it's both in Pages Needing Wicks and Definition Only Pages. Perhaps TRS?
  • Entrance
  • Fan Dumb: Has a cleanup thread now; I think it should be removed from here as it's already listed on Flame Bait.
  • Fan Speak: Upon consideration, I think that this term is too nebulous to make a good definition for anything. It should probably reference Definition-Only Pages, however. And I wonder if we would like a Fan Terminology page.
  • Fetish-Fuel Future: It had its example section cut in 2012 by Eddie but the wicks were left. I advocate removal from here.
  • Flog: Has examples.
  • The Good Guys Always Win: That notice was added in the era when the distinction between "no onpage examples" and "no examples period" wasn't clear. I advocate removal from here, perhaps with a TLP to add examples as proposed by Laundry Pizza.
  • Internet Detective: It's one of these ancient pages that were launched without examples. Remove from here I'd say.
  • Souvenir Edition: Remove in favour of TRS?

New H-M:

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Sep 13th 2020 at 4:33:30 AM



I've hit research fatigue, so I'm not going to check the M entries right now. I do want to revisit the idea of a header/banner. For the pages that we've reviewed, I've suggested that we add the following:
!Please do not add examples to work pages, this merely [[Administrivia/DefinitionOnlyPages defines the term]].

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Lermis Purposefully Untitled from Out of touch with reality Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Purposefully Untitled
Sep 13th 2020 at 6:12:02 AM

[up]For Lurker, I just saw that somebody has removed the examples that were there.

Keep in mind however that it can be potentially turned into a characterization trope - or at the very least, some tropers will receive it as a characterization trope.

Still, the Lurker page clearly was made with the intent to define the term only, and simply wasn't labelled as such (you know, like the Mary Sue page).

Undertale cleanup is picking up again.
ImmiThrax 🏳️‍🌈🎃 from A Galaxy Far, Far Away Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
🏳️‍🌈🎃
Sep 13th 2020 at 6:21:50 AM

[up] Hey, got the ping!

It appears to me that Lurker was never meant to be a trope page, just a definition page for a term, since it only had two examples on it, and only talks about what it is in Real Life/doesn't talk about how works would use it. Jumped in the ol' wayback machine, though, to see what I could see before the current history.

Covered in Star Wars Cleanup, Deadpool, and Web Video sand. I'm not coarse and rough, but I get everywhere.
GeneralGigan The Blue from that place Relationship Status: Drift compatible
The Blue
ccorb from A very hot place Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
GastonRabbit His own thang from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sep 13th 2020 at 6:44:21 AM

[up][up]Actually, that sounds like a pretty good idea. It seems like there's been some confusion between this index and No On-Page Examples, so Administrivia.No Examples Ever would probably clear things up. (Obviously, we'd keep the current name around as a redirect if we changed the name.)

Any questions?
jjjj2 from Mario Galaxy
Sep 13th 2020 at 7:17:58 AM

Yeah as the person who brought up Lurker in ATT, I support making it examples-only.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
rjd1922 Image Pickin' regular from Illinois Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
Image Pickin' regular
Sep 13th 2020 at 7:28:55 AM

As I said on ATT, I don't see any good reason why Lurker shouldn't have examples, or why we should cut the existing ones.

Keet cleanup
ccorb from A very hot place Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
Sep 13th 2020 at 7:39:32 AM

Somebody just added the examples of Lurker back.

[up] Sorry, didn't realize it was you.

Edited by ccorb on Sep 13th 2020 at 10:41:36 AM

Rock'n'roll never dies!
jjjj2 from Mario Galaxy
Sep 13th 2020 at 7:42:44 AM

[up]Yes rjd1922. Both of those examples were zero context, so they probably shouldn't have been there anyway. Mostly I'm in favor of not having them because while it is a very important internet term, I'm not sure it's much of a trope. Most of works of modern fiction have people join forums not lurk on them, that and a trope with less than three examples violates trope launch pad guidelines.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
ImmiThrax 🏳️‍🌈🎃 from A Galaxy Far, Far Away Relationship Status: Crazy Cat Lady
🏳️‍🌈🎃
Sep 13th 2020 at 7:49:39 AM

Lurker wasn't created to be a trope page; it was created as a description of internet lingo. I don't think mistakenly gaining two ZCE examples in 13 years supports the idea that it should have examples and that they shouldn't be cut.

Covered in Star Wars Cleanup, Deadpool, and Web Video sand. I'm not coarse and rough, but I get everywhere.
WaterBlap Blapper of Water Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Blapper of Water
Sep 13th 2020 at 8:30:25 AM

The example from The Destroyer has no context, and should be removed regardless of if Lurker should have any examples at all. "Sara is the original Action Girl" or "Ariel is the original Adaptational Modesty" are sentences that don't have enough information to be useful. Same with "Dr. Smith is the original lurker."

But regarding whether this should be a definition-only page, I'd say that Lurker is defining a term used on the Internet. It's specifically about forum lurkers. It says it's the equivalent to someone lurking in person, but that doesn't mean that's what the article is about. If someone wants to make a trope about someone "who stands in the corner all night" at a social gathering, "listening to other people's conversations," then they should feel free to do so. This article, however, does not list examples of that because most people who read this article do not view it as that trope but rather an article defining the term "lurker."

TLP Crash Rescue Tallies, where we make the wiki better.
jjjj2 from Mario Galaxy
Sep 13th 2020 at 8:40:11 AM

The second one is also I feel zero-context. It doesn't explain what lurking based powers entails.

You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
miraculous I can hear her heartbeat from South Africa
I can hear her heartbeat
Sep 13th 2020 at 9:54:40 AM

I support making lurker a definition only page.

The pawn earns its freedom when it gets past enemy lines. It can become a bishop...a knight...a rook...or even a queen. That you are a pawn.
FernandoLemon Fan of Night in the Woods and Hamilton from Argentina
Fan of Night in the Woods and Hamilton
WarJay77 The better black suit Spidey from The Void Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
The better black suit Spidey
Sep 13th 2020 at 11:29:15 AM

Aye, it should be definition only.

Thanks for the ping btw

Wick Check Project - Troper Wall - TRS sandbox
crazysamaritan Could we just... not have Death anymore? from Lupin III
Could we just... not have Death anymore?
Sep 13th 2020 at 11:39:07 AM

I was kinda hoping you all would be interested in contributing to the other pages, too.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
WaterBlap Blapper of Water Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Blapper of Water
Sep 13th 2020 at 11:52:30 AM

Generally speaking, if the article has three or fewer examples and it describes a concept, rather than how that concept is used in media, I'd say make it a definition-only page. Same goes for pages that describe not a concept, but rather an item or type of forum user. While person types can be tropes, often in the form of stereotypes, there are some pages (e.g. Lurker) that are better described as mere definitions, rather than a defined person type as utilized in media.

I'm not sure if No Examples Ever would be helpful to better understand these tropes. You can use a defined term (a definition-only page) inside examples, but you can't use them as examlpes because they are only definitions. Likewise, they shouldn't have examples listed on them because, they being just definitions, any example would be in the description to help define the term. All other examples on the page would be redundant or plainly unnecessary.

Whereas No Examples Ever might be a lateral change, though it would lose the sense of these pages being just for definitions.

I'm not saying the name Definition-Only Pages is the best possible name. Just that it's a fine name and No Examples Ever might just be a lateral change (if not a slightly lesser name).

EDIT: There could be a separate list for tropes that are not allowed to have any examples anywhere. Like Shotacon And Lolicon. I think that would make sense. But a lot of these are supposed to define terms, so it doesn't make sense that they shouldn't have any wicks at all.

Edited by WaterBlap on Sep 13th 2020 at 1:55:30 PM

TLP Crash Rescue Tallies, where we make the wiki better.
WarJay77 The better black suit Spidey from The Void Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
The better black suit Spidey
Sep 13th 2020 at 11:52:56 AM

I mean, there's a lot there and I was just lurking on this thread specifically because I'm not sure what to do with these pages.

Wick Check Project - Troper Wall - TRS sandbox
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland Relationship Status: Mu
Sep 13th 2020 at 1:16:52 PM

I don't really care if Fetish-Fuel Future is unlocked or not. Example Sectionectomies are usually respected. Re: Fan Terminology: No, the idea of Fan Terminology is to have a trope for when fandoms use work-specific terminology to refer to certain elements in a work. Like Fan Nickname but not for character names. Might be interesting to have. I like the notice you are proposing. I'll concede on the Flame Bait point.

Re: Lurker: I think this falls into the same category as all these Internet Tropes like Implonkus.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Lermis Purposefully Untitled from Out of touch with reality Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Purposefully Untitled
GastonRabbit His own thang from Robinson, Illinois, USA Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
ccorb from A very hot place Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!

Total posts: 148
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