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Ambiguous Name: Olive Garden

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ccorb from A very hot place Since: May, 2020 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
#1: Aug 1st 2020 at 3:42:20 PM

The title of Olive Garden (meant to be about stereotypical depictions of Italy) is very non-indicative and evokes nothing more than the Kitschy Themed Restaurant it is named after. For starters, this trope is not about a garden full of olives. Olives actually originate from Greece, not Italy. This is likely the reason it is relatively disused compared to European Hollywood Atlas tropes:

Olive Garden has 86 wicks. Norse by Norsewest has 148 wicks, Toros y Flamenco (Stereotypical Spain) has 152 wicks and Gay Paree (Stereotypical Paris) has 286 wicks as of this post. I'll do a wick check if necessary, but the sheer scarcity of wicks Olive Garden has in comparison to other commonly-seen European countries just shows how much disuse it gets.

I recommend renaming to something like Ciao Italia or Spaghetti and Gondolas.

EDIT: Also, when I was looking at some of the wicks, the trope was being used in the context of New York/New Jersey Italian-American stereotypes, which is not what this trope is about.

Edited by ccorb on Aug 2nd 2020 at 1:07:07 PM

Rock'n'roll never dies!
SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#2: Aug 2nd 2020 at 1:56:52 AM

Opening.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#3: Aug 2nd 2020 at 5:50:50 AM

Edit: Retracted. Never mind this... posting shortly before going to bed isn't a good idea.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 2nd 2020 at 6:17:42 AM

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SeptimusHeap from Switzerland (Edited uphill both ways) Relationship Status: Mu
#4: Aug 2nd 2020 at 6:50:10 AM

The trope may have an adequate amount of wicks according to that category, but it definitely looks underused compared to other similar tropes.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Spark9 Since: Nov, 2010
#5: Aug 2nd 2020 at 3:01:54 PM

[up][up] Olives are used in plenty of different cuisines; that's not very meaningful.

The name is a clear example of Creator Provincialism. "Olive Garden" is completely unknown outside of the US, and its whole brand is Italian-American instead of actually Italian. It's no surprise that this trope is so underused.

Edited by Spark9 on Aug 2nd 2020 at 3:02:10 AM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#6: Aug 2nd 2020 at 3:07:01 PM

And as an American, I think of the restaurant. It's non-indicative even if you have context.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#7: Aug 2nd 2020 at 4:11:45 PM

[up][up][up]Fair enough; good to hear what a mod has to say on the matter. Maybe renaming wouldn't be a bad idea then.

I think Spaghetti and Gondolas is more indicative between the two names suggested, but Ciao Italia isn't bad, either.

Italy In Fiction exists as a redirect, but I'm pretty sure that's just to help with search results; I think it's a bit overly descriptive to use as the main name, so I think it should just stay as a redirect if we rename this.

Edit: I retracted my previous post because I admit I was incredibly tired when I wrote it (I've fixed that since then).

Edit: [up][up]If this has a Creator Provincialism issue like Trojan Gauntlet was discovered to have on Image Pickin, then that's another point in favor of renaming.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 2nd 2020 at 6:40:21 AM

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ccorb from A very hot place Since: May, 2020 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
#8: Aug 2nd 2020 at 4:40:18 PM

This could also lead to a separate trope about Italian-American stereotypes, such as being from New York or New Jersey and having said accent, subtext with The Mafia, etc.

Rock'n'roll never dies!
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#9: Aug 2nd 2020 at 5:28:58 PM

I could've sworn there was a TLP draft for stereotypes about Italian-Americans being loud and brash, but since I've only been on TLP a handful of times, I could be wrong about this.

I got a rock for Halloween.
naturalironist from The Information Superhighway Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
#10: Aug 2nd 2020 at 8:23:31 PM

Yeah, Rambunctious Italian is the page for stereotypes about the behavior of Italian people.

I agree that the name is unclear, and I like Spaghetti and Gondolas.

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"
Spark9 Since: Nov, 2010
ccorb from A very hot place Since: May, 2020 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
ImperialMajestyXO Since: Nov, 2015
#15: Aug 3rd 2020 at 12:23:09 PM

@Natural: Not really, Rambunctious Italian is specifically a stereotype about Italians and Italian-Americans being loud and passionate.

XFllo There is no Planet B from Planet A Since: Aug, 2012
There is no Planet B
#16: Aug 3rd 2020 at 12:57:50 PM

[tup] Rename.

Not too keen on Spaghetti and Gondolas, though.

GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#17: Aug 3rd 2020 at 2:14:39 PM

Since the Wick page mainly takes a page's age into account, should it be updated to say that different standards may apply to different categories of trope? This thread makes me wonder if it should mention that what kind of trope something is should be taken into account when looking at wick counts, rather than just how old the trope page is.

I'm aware that this would be something for the Outdated Pages thread to handle; I was just wondering if it's something worth taking to that thread.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 3rd 2020 at 4:15:22 AM

I got a rock for Halloween.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#18: Aug 3rd 2020 at 2:15:39 PM

[up] I think it's a good idea.

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GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#19: Aug 3rd 2020 at 2:24:30 PM

I went ahead and posted about it.

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WaterBlap Blapper of Water Since: May, 2014 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Blapper of Water
#20: Aug 3rd 2020 at 5:14:00 PM

I agree with the rename. This is a clear, albeit odd, case of Trope Namer Syndrome.

Another naming option might be Operas And Olive Oil, if only because of the assonance. Or Olive Oil And Operas for the sake of alphabetization, idk. I'm not keen on Ciao Italia because ciao can mean hello but it can also mean bye, and outside of speaking Italian I've only ever heard "ciao" to mean "bye" (in English and German).

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GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
ccorb from A very hot place Since: May, 2020 Relationship Status: It's not my fault I'm not popular!
GastonRabbit C'est la vie. (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
C'est la vie. (he/him)
#23: Aug 3rd 2020 at 7:30:46 PM

Actually, maybe Olive Oil And Operas would be better than Operas And Olive Oil (I originally misread the post and didn't notice the former), if only because it would at least make cleanup easier, and because people looking for examples would end up looking in roughly (if not exactly) the same spot in example lists. We can add both of those (as well as the other suggestions) to the crowner once we have enough consensus for renaming (if we don't already).

Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 3rd 2020 at 9:34:17 AM

I got a rock for Halloween.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#24: Aug 3rd 2020 at 7:32:36 PM
Spark9 Since: Nov, 2010
#25: Aug 4th 2020 at 3:35:36 AM

While I appreciate the Added Alliterative Appeal, bear in mind that olive oil is Greek (and the biggest producer is Spain); whereas the most well-known opera composers are probably Mozart (from Austria) and Wagner (who is German).

So although Italy clearly has olive oil and operas, so do a lot of other places; neither are particularly representative of Italy.

AlternativeTitles: OliveGarden
4th Aug '20 2:09:14 PM

Crown Description:

Vote up names you like, vote down names you don't. Whether or not the title will actually be changed is determined with a different kind of crowner (the Single Proposition crowner). This one just collects and ranks alternative titles.

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