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Just a Face and a Caption: Villain Of The Detour

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Morgenthaler Since: Feb, 2016
#1: Jul 31st 2020 at 1:45:00 AM

New trope. Villain of the Detour is a bad guy who is not affiliated with the Big Bad, but must be defeated anyway to advance the plot.

While the Merovingian is an example of that in context, it just shows him standing in a room with a bunch of mooks, which tells us nothing about the trope.

Edited by Morgenthaler on Jul 31st 2020 at 1:46:27 AM

You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#2: Jul 31st 2020 at 3:54:17 PM

Agreed, it's JACAAC. +1 to pull the plug.

jandn2014 SMILE! from somewhere in Connecticut Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Hiding
SMILE!
#3: Jul 31st 2020 at 4:08:52 PM

Pull. Newly-launched tropes sure do have an issue with problematic images...

Edited by jandn2014 on Jul 31st 2020 at 9:49:34 AM

Jester_Punslinger I fight for a "Jest" cause! from 1999, Plague Year. Since: Sep, 2018 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
I fight for a "Jest" cause!
#4: Jul 31st 2020 at 6:44:51 PM

[up]

The Rosers were red. The Drownies are blue. I know What the Thunder Said. Do you?
TheUnsquished Filthy Casual from A youngun between two oldies Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Filthy Casual
#6: Jul 31st 2020 at 11:50:25 PM

Pull.

(Annoyed grunt)
Willbyr Hi (Y2K) Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Hi
#7: Aug 1st 2020 at 9:30:42 AM

Done and tagged.

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/merovingian.jpg
"Handle us"? You'll handle us? You know, your predecessors had much more respect!

Drope Since: Oct, 2012
#8: Aug 1st 2020 at 10:32:23 AM

I don't see the difference between this trope and Lone Wolf Boss, at least in a gaming context.

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
Drope Since: Oct, 2012
#10: Aug 1st 2020 at 10:39:00 AM

Like he says that a Lone Wolf Boss can be part of an optional mission, even though being optional or not doesn't matter in the description of Lone Wolf Boss. The differences are minimal and badly explained.

At the very least, this needs a new name name or retooling. Otherwise deletion or merging.

Edited by Drope on Aug 1st 2020 at 10:47:34 AM

Spark9 Since: Nov, 2010
#11: Aug 1st 2020 at 2:41:59 PM

We may be able to do something with this (second page, frame six, maybe combine with another frame).

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#12: Aug 1st 2020 at 2:42:58 PM

Honestly? We should just unlaunch it.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Spark9 Since: Nov, 2010
#13: Aug 1st 2020 at 2:46:16 PM

[up] That's the second time I hear unlaunching mentioned in just a couple days... I'm not familiar with unlaunching, how do we do that? Or does it need a mod?

petersohn from Earth, Solar System (Long Runner) Relationship Status: Hiding
#14: Aug 1st 2020 at 2:52:36 PM

Or we may just merge with Lone Wolf Boss. That doesn't even require admin intervention. While it's also not something usually decided on Image Pickin', I'm not against it.

Fjón þvæ ég af mér fjanda minna rán og reiði ríkra manna.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#15: Aug 1st 2020 at 3:35:48 PM

[up][up] We need a mod, but as long as the trope is new enough, it just means that the mod sends it back to the TLP and undoes the edits made in the meantime.

[up] Eh. That can be decided on the TLP. Point is, it doesn't need to stay up.

Edited by WarJay77 on Aug 1st 2020 at 6:36:01 AM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
DreamScrape Since: Oct, 2018
#16: Aug 1st 2020 at 9:10:02 PM

Launcher of the trope here. First off, I'd like to clarify to anyone who wasn't already aware that I was not the one who placed the trope's image. I was aware that it would be difficult to find a singular image that would describe this trope, so I chose to leave it blank, unlike the other two tropes I launched.

But I would like to say that removing the trope wouldn't be the best idea in my eyes, nor would merging it with Lone Wolf Boss. That trope is much too under-classified to make merging the two anything other than problematic. In a superhero's regards, any member of their rouges gallery that isn't the Big Bad could fit as a lone wolf boss. That's not the case for this trope. Characters that count as Villain of the Detour have a higher level of importance to the plot than lone wolf bosses do on average.

Edited by DreamScrape on Aug 1st 2020 at 9:16:30 AM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#17: Aug 1st 2020 at 9:23:43 PM

[up] Look. When problems are brought up- when questions are asked about scope and similarities to other tropes- you don't launch until those things are properly resolved. I think sending it back would be the best idea. Not only did you launch it without responding to any criticisms or questions, but it's already causing a boatload of confusion.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
DreamScrape Since: Oct, 2018
#18: Aug 1st 2020 at 9:34:22 PM

[up] I honestly wouldn't be surprised if the page got merged or even removed.

However, your statement that I ignored criticism is completely false. On the launching page for this trope, I addressed most if not all of the complaints about similarities. The only person who made a comparison to Lone Wolf Boss dropped the complaint after I and someone else explained. Also, the trope had ten green hats and not a single red before it was launched. And none of those hats were mine.

Edited by DreamScrape on Aug 1st 2020 at 9:34:39 AM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#19: Aug 1st 2020 at 9:40:43 PM

Then you should've waited a little longer. People were still questioning the definition of the trope before you launched it, and so obviously your explanation didn't really work. As for the hats...yeah. TLP is broken. I'm not blaming you for seeing the hats and thinking "I'm ready to launch"- it's just a sad fact of the TLP that hats rarely indicate quality and a ton of unprepared drafts get more hats than they'd deserve at the stage they're at.

All I'm saying is, people still had lingering concerns and didn't feel satisfied. Even on the Crash Rescue, people immediately started debating over it.

The launch was just too early. It needed more time to bake; more time to get responses and to fully discuss everything people wanted to discuss. That's why people are confused now; because, while I do concede I was wrong and that you did respond, more discussion into the subject was needed.

Edited by WarJay77 on Aug 1st 2020 at 12:41:54 PM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Drope Since: Oct, 2012
#20: Aug 2nd 2020 at 5:56:20 AM

As an example why this page was not done well:

For Lone Wolf Boss:

  • Most Chapter bosses in Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door aren't affiliated with the X-Nauts, the main antagonistic force in the game. Hooktail, however, does turn out to have been affiliated with the game's Greater-Scope Villain. Most of them, such as Grubba or Cortez, are simply bad guys who found one of the Crystal Stars and are using or hoarding it for entirely selfish reasons. Doopliss is an interesting case since he starts out as a Lone Wolf Boss but then allies himself with the Shadow Sirens after his chapter. Smorg is another odd example in that it was originally intended to have been a creature summoned by Beldam of the Shadow Sirens, but this exposition dialogue was cut in the final version, leaving its origins ambiguous.

For Villain of the Detour

  • A few bosses in Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door have no connection to the X-Nauts or the Shadow Queen, but Mario has to beat them to acquire their Crystal Stars.
    • Macho Grubba has the Gold Star, and he was using it to sap strength from younger fighters to keep himself fit.
    • Before Doopliss gets recruited by Beldam, Mario fights him to get the Ruby Star.
    • Cortez, a ghost skeleton pirate, is in possession of the Sapphire Star. After his defeat, he gives Mario the star and becomes friends with him.

Literally the same thing.

The only difference given in the whole text about the two tropes is some vague "one may be optional, the other is always mandatory", which is too shallow since Lone Wolf Boss can also be mandatory.

Edited by Drope on Aug 2nd 2020 at 6:05:42 AM

Morgenthaler Since: Feb, 2016
#21: Aug 2nd 2020 at 6:15:56 AM

Guys, this is Off-topic. Let's continue this discussion in the TLP Crash rescue.

I'm good to close this thread until the tropability of this page is sorted out.

You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
TheUnsquished Filthy Casual from A youngun between two oldies Since: Nov, 2014 Relationship Status: Married to the job
Filthy Casual
#22: Aug 2nd 2020 at 6:27:06 AM

[up] I'll go with that.

(Annoyed grunt)
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#24: Aug 3rd 2020 at 11:10:06 AM
jandn2014 SMILE! from somewhere in Connecticut Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Hiding

Total posts: 26
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