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slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#1401: Feb 7th 2025 at 4:59:37 PM

[up][up][up] At some point Cecil's obsessive need to recruit/make use of every captured super-being is going to backfire.

Not everyone is easily controlled.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#1402: Feb 7th 2025 at 5:32:31 PM

True, though you also can't blame him.

Nolan wipe out the guardians, killed millions, and was completely unstoppable.....and that was him when he was both phoning it in, and after years of acclimation that made it possible to convince him to stop.

And now we know there are people even worse than him coming.

The Guardians were able to put up a fight against Nolan (in this version, I've always said that the fact that he chose a surprise attack in both versions says good things about how he measured his chances), but they still all died, with Immortal only managing to survive...wait. He didn't. He just can't actually die.

If the Viltrumites go all out, there's gonna be too many for the heroes to fight one on one. Not enough of them are strong enough to stand a chance in a prolonged fight. Unlike DC or even Marvel, they lack the powerhouses who could take the heat off the weaker fighters.

That doesn't make what Cecil did right, and he might be overcompensating for his failure with Nolan, but I kinda get it.

One Strip! One Strip!
OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#1403: Feb 7th 2025 at 5:47:47 PM

When you always put what you consider the greater good over everything, eventually one’s hands end up creating more harm than good. That is always the inevitability on said path. Cecil is understandable insofar there are legitimate threats that need aces up the sleeve, but always acting that inevitably leads to something as terrible or worse down the road.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Feb 7th 2025 at 5:49:30 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#1404: Feb 7th 2025 at 5:55:23 PM

I suppose that's true. When you focus on the bigger picture all the time, you lose track of those smaller pieces that create the bigger picture.

The greater good seems to always lead to a greater evil. Funny how that works.

One Strip! One Strip!
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#1405: Feb 7th 2025 at 5:58:43 PM

What's Cecil is doing is essentially valuing the abstract all of humanity over the lives of a relative few individuals.

In this case allowing Sinclair to continue his work free to the point in the comics he becomes happily engaged to a fellow scientist while his victims like Rick denied any sort of catharsis from their assaulter receiving punishment.

Cecil is pretty much saying Rick's trauma and ruined life are irrelevant.

Edited by slimcoder on Feb 7th 2025 at 6:00:00 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#1406: Feb 7th 2025 at 6:12:19 PM

Makes me think of the Joel vs Fireflies debate.

The debate there was the life of one person vs the lives of millions. The choice that Joel (via you the player) makes is understandable....but also done as much out of selfishness as anything else, even though the Fireflies are implied to not be saints.

At one point, when does the claims of the greater good become hollow? When is choosing to save someone in front of you at the expense of others too selfish?

Cecil...have probably long since crossed the line on the former. He's so obssessed with saving the largest number of people possible that he's forgotten that he's gotta value the individual. Perhaps we could expect that of someone who still considered the loss of 17 people compared to the millions he saved to be a loss.

One Strip! One Strip!
OmegaRadiance Since: Jun, 2011
#1407: Feb 7th 2025 at 6:20:28 PM

Or him deciding to use Nolan for as long as possible, which ended up working but only because someone who didn’t live by the greater good and wasn’t a pawn of Cecil helped to slowly de-radicalize him over decades. And even that wasn’t guaranteed as all the evil Invincible timelines show.

Edited by OmegaRadiance on Feb 7th 2025 at 6:21:30 AM

Every accusation by the GOP is ALWAYS a confession.
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#1408: Feb 7th 2025 at 9:37:58 PM

My take is to always remember this is the guy who did THE WALKING DEAD.

There simply aren't good answers or a way to win in many cases.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#1409: Feb 7th 2025 at 10:04:16 PM
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#1410: Feb 7th 2025 at 10:17:16 PM

Okay I was just reading the Invincible page and this section is funny.

Rescued from the Scrappy Heap: Dupli-Kate is a lot more likable in the show, lacking pretty much all the traits that made her The Scrappy in the comic. Her sleeping with Rex while he was with Eve is actually understandable here, as she didn't know they were still together and immediately apologizes to Eve when she finds out, then pointedly does not enter a relationship with Rex afterwards, instead calling him out for lying to her and cheating on his girlfriend.

Uhhh turns out spoken way too soon, Kate still very much has her acerbic traits and is a pretty selfish person. This isn't even the meanest thing she's done, way later in the comics she she basically fat-shames and slut-shames Eve.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Sunchet Since: Oct, 2010
#1411: Feb 8th 2025 at 3:22:22 AM

Hearing Rex complain about the broken coffee maker makes me wonder just how rich they are and how much luxury they get from Cecil.

Especially funny since it feels like Cecil likes keeping a hand on the pulse so much that he doesn't have any in-between for dealing with heroes, so if you need someone to water your plans or feed your cat while GDA sends you to Mars, it seems like you have to bother Cecil himself with it.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#1412: Feb 8th 2025 at 4:38:47 AM

This is why he teleports everywhere. It's the only way he can make time.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#1413: Feb 8th 2025 at 4:40:08 AM

I recall a single teleport costs as much as Sweden's entire gpm or something.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#1414: Feb 8th 2025 at 4:40:48 AM

[up][up][up][up] Yeah Kate's kind of an asshole in s3e2, much more than she was previously it seems.

It's kind of a Both Sides Have a Point, Rex and Rae are understandably pissed that she didn't tell them she was alive, and understandably but perhaps less reasonably irked that she wasn't in any actual lethal danger in a sense, with her zero body out of the fray.

Then again Kate having that option, it's reasonable to take it and she's not wrong that while Rex and Rae had near death experiences, she literally died. Again and again and again and experiences all of it. (Again why Mark massacring Multi-pauls creeps me out) From the point of the view of an individual duplicate, she's just a normal person with no powers going into battle.

Still when the argument was about Mark and Cecil's fight Kate making it all about her trauma was rather a nasty move.

Edited by dcutter2 on Feb 8th 2025 at 12:41:02 PM

Kaiseror Since: Jul, 2016
#1415: Feb 8th 2025 at 5:29:24 AM

I'm sort of reflexively inclined to mistrust Cecil, but that's more due to my general feelings towards clandestine groups. Real people like Cecil typically only care for their own power and control, not the greater good. Bulletproof did touch on this last season with his "white America" comment.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#1416: Feb 8th 2025 at 5:35:14 AM

It's the thing that Cecil's concerns are only valid towards Mark specifically.

As the leader of a global superpower with near unlimited resources he is objectively vastly more dangerous than any of the Guardians. Mark is probably the only person on the planet strong enough to tell him no.

[up][up] Yeah she keeps bringing up her trauma a lot as a sort of "I don't complain so you shouldn't."

She's effectively pulling misery poker on everyone, saying she suffers the worst out of anyone ever to shut down any argument.

Edited by slimcoder on Feb 8th 2025 at 5:36:22 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
GateStarX The Formatter from The Great White North Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
The Formatter
#1417: Feb 8th 2025 at 5:52:00 AM

I hated Immortal's view on the situation, because its coming from a place of jealousy more than anything else.

It's gonna be fun on the bun!
Sunchet Since: Oct, 2010
#1418: Feb 8th 2025 at 7:24:38 AM

It must be said, Immortal is absolutely terrible leader. I refuse to believe he was King Arthur or Lincoln or whatever.

GateStarX The Formatter from The Great White North Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Buried in snow, waiting for spring
The Formatter
#1419: Feb 8th 2025 at 7:27:40 AM

I mean if he was Lincoln then he has the excuse of being shot in the head, which would probably do something to him.

It's gonna be fun on the bun!
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#1420: Feb 8th 2025 at 7:33:22 AM

It's genuinely amazing how bad the Immortal is at leadership. He just closes up at other people's viewpoints.

Perhaps he should be field commander rather than actual team leader when it comes to downtime management.

I absolutely feel like Dupli-Kate is hugely traumatised because she keeps experiencing death but no one is really able to acknowledge it because she is standing right there infront of them. It's probably just eating at her constantly with no viable social way to come to terms with it outside of butting her head against others.

I absolutely get why she's so fiercely loyal to The Immortal now and why she's so difficult with everyone else.

HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#1421: Feb 8th 2025 at 7:49:59 AM

It's weird. When she actually explained their relationship to Rex, I kinda got it.

As for the Immortal being a shitty leader, that's odd as well. Was he not the leader of the original team? Cause they functioned excellently.

I suppose Omni-Man's betrayal has made it hard for him to be that person again. He watched his old team die, and is now very messed up.

His talk about how being a Guardian is a privilege likely stems from him wishing more of his old comrades were still around. It's also probably why he accepted Darkwing II (the fact that he's never seen the latter kill people might also help). He's trying to recapture what he lost and that's affecting his judgement.

One Strip! One Strip!
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#1422: Feb 8th 2025 at 8:06:39 AM

I kind of feel like Immortal resents the new guardians for not being his dead friends. Which is why he closes up when ever anyone disagrees with him or bow the old guardians did things.

Edited by Whowho on Feb 8th 2025 at 8:07:09 AM

dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#1423: Feb 8th 2025 at 8:45:50 AM

     You want a real costume right?(spoilers) 
  • Rex and Rae continue to be sweet together. I feel like they are building this up to rip out our hearts later.
  • Rex flipping between new/old him is pretty funny and it was nice they invited Eve back to the team and made clear she was welcome at the base.
  • They really can't control Oliver at at all can they? I'm at a loss why he's so fond of and influenced by his dad though, wasn't he a babe in arms when Nolan was taken away? Seems like the only people who could have told him about Nolan was Mark and Debbie, have they been sugarcoating it before then?
  • Debbie telling her date the whole truth is... wow. Not a great idea. Especially since it involves telling him Mark's secrets as well I wonder if that's a point of contention between them. (Oh well a minor one in the episode but he does mention it to Eve (repeatedly) (oh and they make up at the end, sweet))
  • The Maulers don't have their usual "you're the clone, I'm real" thing which makes sense as they now know they both clones even if they don't which one is older. Sad we don't get more of the new them before... they were dead.
  • You can explain empathy to kids but they still not going to really get i, I think, until they grow up and Oliver being a loose cannon is going to be massive problem.


eta: oh and I wonnder what if any the significance of the prelude with Tether Tyrant and magmaniac was? Are they a couple? It seems to fold into Cecil's view, like if they seem to be bad guys just for the money. If GDA put them on the payroll as back up Guardians or some lesser team or whatever they wouldn't be robbing banks and would be doing good.

Edited by dcutter2 on Feb 8th 2025 at 4:49:16 PM

TerraCondor Since: Dec, 2022
#1424: Feb 8th 2025 at 9:31:03 AM

The significance of the prelude, from what I could tell, is showing how Mark thinks bad guys should be beaten up and locked up without a chance for reform. The two at the start want to reform, but lack the opportunities to meaningfully do so and wind up backsliding.

I think it's telling that it's a silent opening where Invincible doesn't even try to talk to either of the two bad guys, even though we do see them clearly conversing with each other.

Whowho Since: May, 2012
#1425: Feb 8th 2025 at 9:33:54 AM

To be fair, with Oliver there, the two of them are gonna have to be an after thought to Mark.

I'd steal stuff too if I was in there positions.


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