This is the official thread for Values Dissonance, Deliberate Values Dissonance, Fair for Its Day, and Values Resonance. A 20-year waiting period has been placed on the “values” tropes, due to various misuse and shoehorning.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Jan 5th 2023 at 9:07:15 AM
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Gotcha, the example doesn't make that clear (I grew up in the 21st century and I forgot that it was once acceptable for men to hit their wives, and even then I didn't know there was a so-called "proper" way to do it). I'll rewrite it.
Edited by supernintendo128 on Jul 3rd 2022 at 10:04:46 AM
pee pee poo pooI'm actually not convinced that's what the example was going for. My first thought was that the dissonance was instead the whole idea that there's supposed to be a different way to hit men and women at all, which while not a dead idea (see modern examples for Would Not Hit a Girl) is certainly less dominant today.
If anything the modern thing to do is to hit everyone equally.
But yeah, I read it the same as you, njr.
Edited by WarJay77 on Jul 3rd 2022 at 11:13:04 AM
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall![]()
Equal rights means equal fights, am I right?
Unfortunately I haven't seen the episode (and it doesn't say which episode it is so I can't easily go and look it up) so I don't know the full context of the scene, honestly this is getting messy and I'm just going to comment it out as a ZCE.
On ValuesDissonance.Comic Books for Asterix:
- Obelix is usually the one to be given a love interest, though usually it's unreciprocated and takes the form of a crush on a pretty woman which helps drive the plot. In Asterix and Caesar's Gift, he develops another crush on newcomer Influenza, the daughter of an innkeeper, who uses this crush to manipulate him. Influenza is stated to be a teenager; Obelix, though he has a Vague Age, is clearly an adult and is at least in his twenties note . While it was more acceptable in times past for adult men to pursue teenaged girls, to modern readers it's certainly uncomfortable.
Edited by nw09 on Jul 5th 2022 at 12:02:49 PM
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Yeah, I just thought what might have been the explanation, but I don't know the series. I guess it is the right call to just hide it as a zero-context example.
I think that might qualify as both. Maybe a little more on just Values Dissonance if they don't call attention to it. Although as written, the examples seems to be unsure as it talks too much on assumptions.
I found this on the live action tv page
- It seems on The Jeffersons that whenever the title couple and their neighbors the Willises get together, even by chance, they routinely break out the liquor bottles and fix themselves a drink. Such routine social lubrication raises eyebrows today, since it seems like a sign of a drinking problem.
Umh maybe I'm missing something but is pouring a drink for a visiting friend that frowned upon? I've never heard of that.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."~Hellboy 33 - On "Have Spacesuit – Will Travel"
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Googling for "water, food, pills, dexedrine" and the title shows that it seems to be mentioned in the story...
I guess we should fix the name, since they use the triple E variant. Oh, you use the double I. The page uses triple-E. Nevermind?
Edited by Malady on Jul 9th 2022 at 5:54:26 AM
Disambig Needed: Help with those issues! tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13324299140A37493800&page=24#comment-576On Wayside School:
- Values Dissonance:
- Mrs. Jewls comes off as a less sympathetic teacher in the 21st century, though the books were written in the 1970s and 80s. She thinks that taping everyone's mouths is a great way to keep them quiet after seeing how well it works on Jason— masking tape which is easily removable, but still Nightmare Fuel in the day and age where restraints used on special needs kids have led to suffocation and death — and considers it a fair punishment to send kids home early on the kindergarten bus. Besides the obvious of Getting Suspended Is Awesome, it essentially means she's not doing her job as a teacher. Not to mention that when the mean Mrs. Jewls takes over, she commits several offenses that would be firing-worthy if the kids decided to rat her out. She nearly hits Todd with a yardstick so hard that it breaks, and comes close to dousing Leslie's head in pickle brine just because Leslie was confused about the lesson. All Mrs. Jewls does is punish herself by sending herself home on the kindergarten bus.
- Louis has to deal with Terrence in the latter's spotlight chapter when he kicks every ball in the playground over the fence. He had already fielded complaints from the other kids, who said that Terrence ruined their games. Terrence then whines that there's nothing else to kick, and the kids and Louis tell him there is. The kid then demands it. Louis then kicks Terrence over the fence as punishment for his bad attitude and because he asked for something to kick. Now imagine a teacher in the 21st century kicking a student over the fence as punishment, especially if the school is next to a busy road.
I can kind of get the Mrs. Jewels ones since hitting a student was probably less scrutinized in the 70's and 80's so it wouldn't make her look as unsympathetic as it did back then, even if it was still depicted as crossing a line. But the second bullet point seems to just be taking slapstick too seriously as I highly doubt Louis Sachar thought it was acceptable for teachers to kick students.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.I think there might be value to the "almost hitting Todd with a ruler" bit as that's too realistic and controversial nowadays to be taken seriously, as opposed to the pickle brine thing which is very silly... but it's also shown in a negative light in the book too.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.Yeah, I don’t think either of those examples really fit.
On a different note, back in February, Cryptid Productions changed the Values Dissonance example on YMMV.The Dukes Of Hazzard from this:
- Values Dissonance: Aside from the shameless amount of female objectification with Daisy, the show reeks of southern pride, which has largely fallen out of style in the decades since its broadcast now that real-life nationalism in the South has become synonymous with white supremacy. The worst offender is easily the General Lee, which is not only named for a Confederate leader (you know, the guys who started a war to keep the slave trade going?) but also proudly displays the Confederate flag, itself now recognized more as a symbol of white supremacy and segregation than of patriotism. It was bad enough to get the show permanently pulled from syndication in The New '10s.
to this:
- Values Dissonance: The General Lee itself: which is named for a {{Confederate leader The American Civil War}}and displays the now highly controversial "Stars and Bars" Confederate flag, which was once reappropriated as general symbol of the south but has become associated heavily with the alt-right as they reclaimed it as a symbol of white supremacy in the mid-2010s
Aside from the new example leaving out some details, their reasoning was that the old example “sounded complainy and seemed to be attacking the American South as a whole “. However, I don’t see how the old example was negative. As far as I know, the Confederate battle flag was never “reappropriated as [a] general symbol of the south”; it’s always been tied back into white supremacy.
From YMMV.Buffy The Vampire Slayer
- In the comic book, Season Twelve (and the series) ends with Buffy and Faith finding a happy ending by enrolling in the police academy. Given the nosedive that the reputation of the police as an institution has taken in years following and the Black Lives Matter movement, the fallout from the Uvalde shooting, etc., and it starts to look more like an Esoteric Happy Ending when superpowered white women join an organization best known for either being completely ineffectual in the face of threats or using their power to brutalize people of color.
The season 12 comic was published in 2018. Is it too soon?
Huh? Where did this come from? That stupid flag is infamous as a symbol of white supremacy and the confederacy.
Hell why do you think it flies with Nazi flags at rallies?
Edited by miraculous on Jul 10th 2022 at 2:20:02 AM
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."YMMV.Panty And Stocking With Garterbelt
- Values Dissonance: While the reaction to the announcement of the show's return has been overwhelmingly positive, on Twitter the show's off-the-wall humor has been criticized due to how poorly it has aged for some, with Gartbelt, in particular, being criticized for coming off as a stereotype and a casual Pedophile Priest. The fact that black characters have universally been depicted as having what has been deemed to be "donut lips" has also been criticized due to their association with racism and blackface. That said, a number of these criticisms have come from people that have admitted to not watching the show.
The series came out in 2010. It's not old enough for an entry. It also weirdly tries to invalidate the people feeling this way in the last paragrah?
Thomas fans needed! Come join me in the the show's cleanup thread!Yeah that's too early, and this was considered offensive in 2010 anyway. Now if someone looked more into the Japanese versus Western audience angle that may lead to something but IDK.
I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.So thoughts on the one I brought up?
From The Last Unicorn.
- Values Dissonance:
- The book takes a few pot-shots at "silly women," which might be accurate for the setting but not very sympathetic for the audience.
- Prince Lír falls in Love at First Sight with the Lady Amalthea, and keeps pushing and pushing for her to love him back despite her lack of interest. Even Molly pressures her to return his sentiments rather than tell him to back off since the lady is clearly not interested, and the Lady Amalthea correctly deduces that he doesn't want to know her thoughts but wants to possess her just like the Bull did, and it frightens her. Later, Lír encounters the Lady Amalthea when she's struggling to remember herself and something important about her past, and he encourages her to forget because he feels uncomfortable seeing her true self (unicorn-in-human-form) and prefers the docile maiden he met (the lady Amalthea). Eventually she relents and returns his feelings, but only after surrendering remembering anything before she met him. It's even stated Lir prefers her as a blank slate so that he can write her past and opinions for himself, and she loves him because she has no memory or identity before meeting him. While previously these acts might have been considered romantic, in the age of Nice Guys and male entitlement, and a growing understanding of Unequal Pairings and possessive / controlling behavior, it makes the prince come off as a creep (and vaguely controlling) for taking advantage of a vulnerable woman for his own benefit. Her returning to unicorn form and being unable to love him since she recovered her memory and identity can also seem less tragic and more of a dodged bullet. On the other side of the argument, Prince Lír does ultimately have a change of heart and is even the one who convinces Amalthea to turn back into a unicorn, with him being forced to let go and realise that it would be wrong of him to convince her to stay human for him, so it seems this may be an intentional example of Character Development.
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The first one says it's accurate for the setting so it may be Deliberate Values Dissonance (assuming it's a period piece).

(well, I had something to say, but spilling onto a new page spoils it, so never mind)
Edited by Vilui on Jul 3rd 2022 at 1:03:11 PM