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Values Dissonance/Resonance Cleanup

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This is the official thread for Values Dissonance, Deliberate Values Dissonance, Fair for Its Day, and Values Resonance. A 20-year waiting period has been placed on the “values” tropes, due to various misuse and shoehorning.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jan 5th 2023 at 9:07:15 AM

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#301: Feb 11th 2021 at 4:40:51 PM

The two party system has always been controversial. (South Park made a "both parties suck" episode in like, 2008.) In my personal experience, I've seen more people denouncing the "both sides are equally bad" mindset when it comes to post-2016 politics, so I highly doubt the mindset is Values Resonance to the mainstream. (Though it's not Values Dissonance either - it's just a contentious argument across the USA in general.)

Plus ~William Shakesman is edit warring already.

Edited by mightymewtron on Feb 11th 2021 at 7:41:37 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
maxwellsilver Since: Sep, 2011
#302: Feb 11th 2021 at 5:09:08 PM

Just removed it.

Should a comment be added in its place?

rjd1922 Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular, from the United States Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular,
#303: Feb 12th 2021 at 9:35:47 PM

Since it's been 20 years since Lloyd in Space aired, may I re-add this example to its YMMV page? I asked in January, but RallyBot2 refused to discuss it even though it was weeks away from being 20 years.

  • Francine's treatment of Lloyd is clearly bullying and goes well beyond the 'harmless kid stuff' it was treated as during the early 2000s. She tortures him with her powers and is hardly ever disciplined by her mother. These days it's quite clearly abuse, and it certainly would be shown as such if the abuser wasn't a cute little girl.

Keet cleanup
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#304: Feb 12th 2021 at 10:02:55 PM

I'm not familiar with the cartoon, but I feel like that example depends on how seriously we're meant to take any instance of bullying in the show. Is there a clear Double Standard set up where female bullies are given more leeway, or does the cartoon just not treat bullying as abuse to begin with? And even then, is treating bullies for comedy in kids' show a fully Discredited Trope now?

Edited by mightymewtron on Feb 12th 2021 at 1:03:56 PM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
bwburke94 I am mad scientist! It's so cool! from 1.048596% (Y2: Electric Boogaloo) Relationship Status: She does the things you do, but she is an IBM
I am mad scientist! It's so cool!
#305: Feb 13th 2021 at 7:54:15 AM

[up][up] Now that it has been 20 years, it can be an example.

2025: the year it all ends?
fragglelover Since: Jun, 2012
#306: Feb 14th 2021 at 10:34:15 AM

This is on Pepper Ann under Values Resonance:

  • "Impractical Jokes" shows just how harmful practical jokes can be, especially in the days when people performed all sorts of mean-spirited pranks and the defence was "It's just a prank, bro".

maxwellsilver Since: Sep, 2011
#307: Feb 16th 2021 at 11:23:38 PM

From Clue

  • Fair for Its Day: Mr. Green's blackmail focus? Alleged homosexuality. While a bit prim and flamboyant, he's more of a Straight Gay than anything, and is the only one who really didn't do anything, arguably making him one of the more moral characters in any ending (only Wadsworth comes close, being that his wife was the victim and he only wanted revenge). It's ruined by the fact ending C twists things around by the last line: "Now, I'm gonna go home and sleep with my wife".
  • Values Dissonance: Mr. Green's deep dark secret that he is being blackmailed over is that he's secretly gay. One could argue that this is the least egregious offense compared to taking bribes and selling essential military parts on the black market, but the rest of the guests treat it as much of a shame as he does (punctuated by Professor Plum scooting farther from him on the couch when he admits it). While everybody making this a big deal could just be a part of the joke (his last line in the third ending implying as such), this was not an uncommon reaction in 1985 and you really could lose your job - especially as a State Department employee - for being homosexual. The film being a Period Piece set in the '50s also quite nicely prevents it from feeling dated.
    • And to be fair to the government, the idea wasn't that you were a less effective government worker if you were homosexual, but rather that if you were, and you were hiding it, you would be vulnerable to blackmail, the same reason that background checks require you to admit if you have significant debt, and will disqualify you if you lie, indicate that you've got something to hide, which you might trade state secrets to keep hidden.

The entry points out it's a 1950s period piece and argues against itself. The Fair for Its Day entry doesn't really explain how it was progressive at the time but became dated afterwards.

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#308: Feb 16th 2021 at 11:26:21 PM

If it's a period piece, it's probably Deliberate Values Dissonance.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
fragglelover Since: Jun, 2012
#309: Feb 17th 2021 at 4:42:53 AM

This is on Animaniacs under Values Dissonance:

Edited by fragglelover on Feb 17th 2021 at 6:43:37 AM

ShinyCottonCandy Everyone's friend Malamar from Lumiose City (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Everyone's friend Malamar
#310: Feb 17th 2021 at 5:30:51 AM

[up]That's just fantasy The Power of Love. No way was that ever meant to reflect a real time or place.

My musician page
fragglelover Since: Jun, 2012
#311: Feb 24th 2021 at 8:21:02 AM

This was added to Home on the Range:

Values Resonance: 16 years after the film was made, "Will the Sun Ever Shine Again?" easily sums up so many people's feelings during the 2020 COVID-19 pandemic, isolating for months and keeping themselves apart from family and friends, while the disease killed millions of people and new disasters seemed to happen every other day.

jandn2014 SMILE! from somewhere in Connecticut Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Hiding
SMILE!
#312: Feb 24th 2021 at 8:36:41 AM

[up] Everything about that is terrible. Nuke it.

maxwellsilver Since: Sep, 2011
#313: Feb 25th 2021 at 11:54:44 AM

And the movie's not even 20 years old yet.

maxwellsilver Since: Sep, 2011
#314: Feb 25th 2021 at 12:02:34 PM

From American Pie.

  • Values Resonance: In American Pie 2 Stifler asks a girl he is making out with if she was sure she wanted to have sex as she was drinking at the party and might have been intoxicated, something he says they told him about in college, feels quite ahead of its time in 2001 considering stories about rape on campuses and understanding of consent in the late 2010s.

This just seems like Everyone Has Standards given his characterization.

It seems like entries that amount to "it's refreshing this character isn't a dick/bigot" is just People Sit on Chairs and should be an automatic delete.

RallyBot2 (Elder Troper) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
#315: Feb 25th 2021 at 8:15:33 PM

[up]It's also only 19 years old, so that's another one for the chopping block.

fragglelover Since: Jun, 2012
#316: Feb 26th 2021 at 2:06:13 PM

This is on Medieval Times Dinner And Tournament:

  • Values Dissonance: The video "Real Knights Give Dating Advice" made with BuzzFeed has been poorly received for trying to apply the dated codes of chivalry to modern-day advice for dating women, which the medieval era was infamous for mistreating. However, the video was meant to be lighthearted and did not intend to promote sexism.

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#317: Feb 26th 2021 at 2:21:28 PM

That's more Unfortunate Implications, if we can cite it.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
fragglelover Since: Jun, 2012
#318: Feb 27th 2021 at 10:41:42 PM

These are on Codename: Kids Next Door:

  • Values Dissonance: Count Spankulot, a vampire who spanks disobedient children. Along with spanking children being frowned upon in modern society, the idea of a grown man going around and spanking children he doesn't know would be considered, well, creepy nowadays.
  • Values Resonance: This show was made in the early 2000s, features a racially diverse cast of characters without relying on stereotypes or tokenism, and shows female characters being just as tough and capable as male ones. In the 2010s, when representation of nonwhite and female characters became more important in the media, this show holds up as an early example of how to do it right, especially for a children's show.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#319: Feb 27th 2021 at 11:02:19 PM

Yeah dump both of them. Spanking was already regularly understood as wrong for decades and Five-Token Band has similarly been around for a long time.

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#320: Mar 4th 2021 at 11:20:46 PM

ValuesResonance.South Park might have other questionable entries, but this one really doesn't make much sense to me.

  • In "Pinkeye", The children all dressing up as a popular Star Wars character while anyone who dresses as something unique or less celebrated is treated as an outcast. Given how the Star Wars franchise would make a resurgence in the 2010s even bigger than before, "Pinkeye" can work as a commentary on how over-saturation affects kids. And even in the years immediately following this episode's release, any kid going to school with any merchandise related to Jar Jar Binks could look forward to a whole lot of ridicule.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
RallyBot2 (Elder Troper) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
#321: Mar 5th 2021 at 3:37:07 AM

[up]I'm going to guess that whoever wrote that example just wanted to complain about Star Wars.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#322: Mar 7th 2021 at 12:40:57 AM

From Under Night In-Birth:

On top of not fitting the 20-year bill this just sounds like an attempt to shoehorn a ROCEJ issue in.

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#323: Mar 7th 2021 at 1:11:28 AM

False accusations are not a new concern, and their relevance to The New '10s was mostly in the contexts of hypotheticals, while alleged and even convicted rape cases dominated the news, not confirmed false cases. That entry stinks. And it's got shoehorned character complaining to boot.

Edited by mightymewtron on Mar 7th 2021 at 4:12:08 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
TheLivingDrawing Lucas the Dreamer from The Town of Clayton Since: Apr, 2019 Relationship Status: Yes, I'm alone, but I'm alone and free
Lucas the Dreamer
#324: Mar 9th 2021 at 4:44:51 PM

This entry for Ride with the Devil feels like it would better fit with Audience-Alienating Premise instead.

The film was destroyed at the box office thanks to Values Dissonance. The movie portrays an African American fighting on the side of southern guerrillas in the Kansas border skirmishes of the Civil War. Although the character had a historically factual precedent, the idea of a black soldier fighting for the Confederacy, an institution widely associated with white supremacy, was so repugnant that the film was delayed, promotional materials were destroyed, and the release was severely limited (in the actual Confederacy most of the black soldiers were slaves forced into service by their masters though, so it's not as if they were all willing anyway). Even in the film, the character possibly only goes with them because he feels grateful for George freeing him, and suffers from constant racism by the white fighters.
So should I move it over to Audience-Alienating Premise?

Once Upon A Time.
maxwellsilver Since: Sep, 2011
#325: Mar 10th 2021 at 10:02:18 AM

This entry from All in the Family is pure complaining.

  • Values Resonance: A case of utter irony, a lot of the things Archie was ignorant towards, are now actually being looked at in a more serious light like his actor intended. To use an above example, while many aren't averse to the idea of working for a buck, the practice of asking more and more from workers and paying as little as possible is now under tighter scrutiny than ever before. Yes, while jobs are out there and many, while not glamorous, are there for us to "earn a buck", it now often takes three or four of these minimum-wage (or less) jobs in order to get by, and even that is if your employer is willing to pay a full 40 hours of work instead of 38-39 to avoid paying benefits.note  Management is more concerned with profit than with employees' lives. It's rare for today's companies to include things like pensions, insurance, even basic care services. Meanwhile, the prices of housing, food, medical care, etc., have increased, while income has not.


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