Values Dissonance/Resonance Cleanup

Cinderella needed help but that doesn't diminish her attempt to be proactive at the end.

Doesn't Alice just sort of wander around, get into trouble, and cry a lot?

Edited by WarJay77 on Jan 22nd 2021 at 2:40:26 PM

That seems unfair to Alice considering she's seven. Agreeing with mewtron. Disney princesses were never portrayed as do-nothings, and I wouldn't be surprised if the entry was written at a time it was super hip to "call out" the princesses. Nvm it was written up last year. However, if there's a citation to real audience opinions at the time and it's rewritten, it could be valid.

Edited by Tabs on Jan 22nd 2021 at 3:38:03 AM

She was seven in the original book, but looks eleven or twelve in the Disney film. I've seen a lot of debate over whether this is an Age Lift or Artistic Age.

I just googled "Alice in Wonderland feminist" and most of the sources are calling the story anti-feminist, or at least not progressive at all. Not sure why, and most of them refer to the original book, but I don't think that her being more feminist than the princesses is a widespread opinion if these are the top results.

Oh I wasn't accusing you or anything, I was just trying to see if the example was a common belief, and that doesn't seem to be the case. Alice is a good escapist character for many but I don't see a lot of people specifically praise her as feminist so I think the entry can go.

Edited by mightymewtron on Jan 23rd 2021 at 6:08:56 AM

I wasn't bashing Alice, or at least I wasn't trying to. She's a young girl in a surreal fantasy world; she's not really a proactive feminist icon but I wasn't saying she's a bad character, the example is just exaggerating her strength and role in the story.

From Cyber Six

• Values Dissonance:
  • In one episode, two of the Asian characters have buck teeth. Sure they are nice people, and they are one shot characters, but that would not get into a kids show today.
  • Lori having a crush on Adrian, her teacher, would similarly be incredibly difficult to portray as comedy in the modern era with an increasing awareness of abuses of power.
• Values Resonance: On the plus side, most modern audiences relate to this show and to a lesser extent the comic due to having a protagonist that can be seen as genderfluid and not portraying Lucas as unusual for wanting to spend Valentines with someone he assumes to be a man.

The first, not sure about, and the entry doesn't seem sure about itself, either.

The second, Hot for Teacher is still somewhat common and beside which, Cyber 6 shuts it right down and does not reciprocate.

The third (as well as the LGBT Fanbase entry) feels a lot like Alternative Character Interpretation since the comic makes it clear Cyber 6 is simply Clark Kenting as Adrian via Dead Person Impersonation while the show would not be able to explore such ideas with a Y7 rating, and it's a case of Heterosexual Life-Partners between Lucas and Adrian (and I doubt this is the first show to have two guys without dates on Valentines Day).

Asians with buck teeth: I'm pretty sure that people in 1993 knew that was offensive. That's just being racist.

Lori' crush on Adrian: Oh bloody Hell, that's just somebody looking to be offended. Teenagers often have crushes on their teachers. It's a thing that happens, and the troper seems to be trying to blame Cybersix for their student finding them attractive?

Resonance: Sounds valid if 'genderfluid' is changed to 'gender-nonconforming'.

For what it's worth, the Mexicans Love Speedy Gonzales entry states Caucasian characters have similar buckteeth.

I found this in the movie section of YMMV.Wing Commander and I'm not sure what the dissonance is:

• Values Dissonance: The pilots of the Claw make it a point to completely disavow the deceased upon the loss of a respected comrade, going so far as to say they never existed.

That could probably do with some more context. As is, I have no idea what they're trying to say.

If it's about a fictional culture, it might be meant to be Deliberate Values Dissonance?

From the Values Resonance page, under Mythology:

There's so little context here that I'm not even quite sure it wasn't meant to be on the Dissonance page instead.

This is on ValuesDissonance.The Simpsons:

The season four episode "Homer the Heretic" (where Homer abandons organized religion for his own system of beliefs) will meet with Value Dissonance these days for many atheists, agnostics, or lapsed religious people as the ending implies that people who abandon organized religion will be punished for it (Homer being saved from the house fire by Flanders [a Christian], Krusty the Clown [a Jew], and Apu [a Hindu]). It helps that Homer is put in danger not by God, but by his own arrogant hedonism (smoking a cigar while taking a nap). What's odd is that, outside of that ending, the episode actually has Values Resonance these days for the same people who think the ending is outdated for modern times.

(BTW, that whole page might need a look over...)

Looks like another attempt to circumvent the citation requirement for Unfortunate Implications.

This is on Dexter's Laboratory:

• Values Dissonance:
  • There are an awful lot jokes that involve Dexter, who is implied to be prepubescent, neding up naked or in his underwear. He's also frequently seen flirting with or being flirted with by older women. Cable TV viewers from the 90s would have found this funny, but not general audiences today who are far more sensitive to potentially sexual depictions of children in media.
  • An inoffensive example. In one episode, Dexter meets a bunch of doll collectors who freak out when a collector's box is opened. This viewpoint is not quite as common as it was in the 1990s, as many doll collectors now open their boxes.
  • In the wake of regular mass shootings in The New '10s, the ending of "Dodgeball Dexter" (where Dexter uses a robot to fire dodgeballs with machine gun rapidity at his bullies) comes off less like a cathartic Bully Hunter fantasy and more like a disturbing glorification of school shooters. The actual, barely-exaggerated bullying Dexter endures is also a lot less darkly humorous in an age that's more enlightened about bullying.

Edited by fragglelover on Feb 5th 2021 at 12:53:26 PM

Im pretty sure if people wouldve found the "sexualization" disturbing now, it would've been disturbing back then.

Also, school shootings didn't exist before 2010 apparently.

I get the bit about Dexter flirting with older women (even though the risque nature of the dynamic was already the joke) but showing off his underwear, or even his bare butt? That's still seen on kids' cartoons like Steven Universe and Inside Out. It's not inherently sexual. Kids just like butt jokes.

Edited by mightymewtron on Feb 5th 2021 at 2:06:31 PM

Not finding them funny is more about growing up and getting different tastes than a change in overall cultural values.

That's what I was thinking. Plenty of kids shows and movies still have jokes about the protagonists being in their underwear or naked.

(I looked through the edit history, turns out the person who added that was the same one who added the Values Dissonance stuff about Martha to How the Grinch Stole Christmas!)

Should we call them in here and ask them to give their perspective?

They were suspended last month...

For all wondering, they're referring to Flowersnf.

Off topic, but the history of that page is showing a bunch of natter issues. Is it just me?

This was re-added to The Simpsons S8 E1 "Treehouse of Horror VII" after I deleted it months ago for being a rambling politics entry.

• Values Resonance: Kang and Kodos replace Bill Clinton and Bob Dole: no matter which of them wins, they intend to turn America into a slave state for their planet. When the deception is revealed, the pair smugly inform the populace that because America runs on a two-party system, one of them will still rise to power. It's not quite as funny in 2016, where the two major candidates Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are highly controversial and polarizing, third party candidates are starting to gain a lot more attention, and where faith in the two major parties is at its lowest level. And again in the 2020 election, where the candidates are Trump (who is much less popular than he was the first time around) and the also controversial Joe Biden.
  Kang (with slobbery laughter): Go ahead—throw your vote away! Ha ha ha haa!

That is a huge ROCEJ breaker.

It won't be considered an edit war if I remove it?