Unclear Description: Batman Can Breathe In Space

Here it is. I'll wait for some input before asking to hook, see if anything else needs to be added.

I'd like to apologize for all this.

I don't really see the point of renaming. I think the description needs to be clarified to explain what does and doesn't count.

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"

(1,2,3) are definitely correct in my personal IMO. 5 is definitely wrong. I'm on the fence about 4.

Trouble Cube continues to be a general-purpose forum for those who desire such a thing.

Voted "explicitly on account of some internal property like superpowers or alien biology". There's a difference between sending characters to space because you want to tell a story, and having justification for characters surviving in space.

"Allow examples of characters who can comfortably survive in space on account of some external aid less than a full spacesuit." - Can I get an example for this one? There's no wick check.

I'd like to apologize for all this.

• Guardians of the Galaxy apparently operates by the principle that you can't breathe in space, but if you have some kind of respirator, you need no other protection from the elements. Peter Quill flies from the Kyln to the other Guardians in the Milano in nothing but his civilian clothes and his mask, which doesn't even cover his hair. Similarly, Peter later saves Gamora's life by coming out of his mining pod in space and giving her his mask, holding his breath long enough for The Cavalry — in the form of his space pirate adopted family — to come and get both of them. Neither suffer particularly ill effects given that they both spend about a minute in vacuum.

Even if there's no serious clarity issue, the trope name does feel...bad to me. It's a situation speaking for the actual concept of the trope, and even though the character in the name isn't integral to understanding, a character doesn't need to be cited in the name at all. There's a reason we don't use Alice and Bob phrases in trope names, which is basically what this one is doing.

I think examples like that one would be good only if we also rename the trope, which I'm in favor of doing. Perhaps something along the lines of Improbable Space Survival should do the trick. Characters like that can't breathe in space, so an example like that would be confusing under the current name.

Edited by FernandoLemon on Sep 10th 2020 at 10:29:28 AM

I'd like to apologize for all this.

There is a crowner, but it has yet to be hooked to this page.

I'm back!

I think it's time. Hollered.

I'd like to apologize for all this.

Attached it.

"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman

Going into more depth about the issue of renaming:

This thread exists because the description is unclear. There is no evidence of misuse demonstrated, and no wick check was done. We have no reason to believe the name is contributing to misuse. All the crowner definition options are just as compatible with Improbable Space Survival as they the current name.

I feel like lately the TRS has been automatically moving towards renaming or cutting tropes even when that's not a commensurate solution, and ignoring the massive amount of work it involves. This is also leading to a shift toward very boring, boilerplate "adjective noun noun" titles which I think makes the wiki less fun. This is ok when the old title was nonindicative as they often are — Clear Concise Witty after all. But in this case I think the current title is not unclear, and is also a lot funnier.

"It's just a show; I should really just relax"

I agree that we should only rename if there's evidence the name is contributing to a problem. I asked for a wick check early on to see if that was the case. As this thread seems concerned with the description and scope, I'm downvoting the rename option as well.

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree.

Wick Checks are important, fam. If you want to rename, give us a reason to.

Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness

Right, changing both the name and the description/scope is effectively making a new trope from scratch.

Edited by crazysamaritan on Sep 14th 2020 at 6:48:15 AM

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

My motive for renaming was due to agreement that the trope wasn't exclusively about being able to breathe in space, but about space survival in general (such as being able to survive with a helmet but no space suit).

I'd like to apologize for all this.

We can scratch that from the crowner and focus on the scope.

Come again?

I'd like to apologize for all this.

I believe they mean to remove it as an option. It's already in the red, so unless a spur of upvotes come up I don't think that's necessary.

Crowner status update:

• Allow examples of unrealistic comfort is at 16:0 in favour.
• Allow examples of comfort due to external aid (less than full suit) is at 9:6 in favour (below the 2:1 consensus).

All other options are in the negatives.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Should we call it?

I'd like to apologize for all this.

No, it isn't stable. In the time since I posted, the crowner has gained +1 votes for the first option and +2 votes for the second option. We can wait a few days to see how it changes. Crowners stay until the vote ratio demonstrates stability over a long time (~three days is the rule).

---

Another rule that it has already passed, is that crowners should have at least ten votes.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.

Yeah, now the "less than a full suit" option is at 12:6.

Add as bullet points what the scope of the trope is?