Seems like it is, if the trope is defined as lack of realism (lots of examples of people who have appropriate superpowers). Not that description/definition issues necessarily require a wick check.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard FeynmanI think that
(4) Characters who can comfortably survive in space on account of some external aid less than a full spacesuit.
I also think that
3 is the definition I have in mind when I think about this trope.
"It's just a show; I should really just relax"Really? Bruce Wayne doesn't have any alien biology or superpowers, so why do you draw that conclusion?
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.Because he's Batman. Comic book stuff, superhero stuff. While Bruce isn't super-powered by any means, he's still "special", so I'm willing to make the logic leap that "yeah, he's a super-hero, of course he can breathe in space".
No, it doesn't make sense, but that's where the logic comes from.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall(1) with Tropes Are Flexible allowing for (3) is my take on this trope. The others would be non-straight cases at best.
It's that you intuitively accept him breathing in space, before Fridge Logic kicks in and you remember that yes, he shouldn't be able to. A (1) that at first seems a (2). Alternately, you just assume he has a device that the audience wasn't told about.
Edited by Laukku on Jul 19th 2020 at 3:44:54 PM
Your chain of logic better supports (6) characters in space without the equipment that Real Life humans need to survive. Which, I would contend, means there is no problem and the page can be left as-is.
Link to TRS threads in project mode here.I mean, I guess it does. Like I said, I know the association makes zero sense, but this is how I see the trope and how I justify the title along with it. -shrug-
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallUnless the viewer-imagined explanation is "he's Batman, surely he's got a space-breathing gadget we just haven't heard of", it would fall under (1). (Though of course, my impromptu categorisation isn't perfect, and there are edge cases and combinations.)
As for the trope itself, (1,3) seems like a good solution. In this case, we should probably borrow the Super Not-Drowning Skills setup of explicitly separating definitely unjustified examples and possibly unjustified examples in separate lists, to ensure that Examples Are Not Arguable.
I always thought the trope was (1); it makes absolutely no sense for a character to breathe in space, but he does anyway. Basically, a subtrope of MST3K Mantra and/or A Wizard Did It.
That said, the discussion in this thread shows to me that the name is pretty unclear. Should we do something about that? Or just crowner which of the five it is, and remove examples that don't fit?
I'm all for that.
Edited by FernandoLemon on Aug 21st 2020 at 11:56:03 AM
I'd like to apologize for all this.![]()
Same here. My best guess would be renaming to Implausible Space Survival and restricting the trope to definitions (1) and possibly (3) or (4).
We're already a behind, so let's make a crowner. First, however, we need options.
Rename is one, for certain, and I believe we should also add an entry for each of the types mentioned in the wick check. Not starting a crowner yet until I get consensus on these.
I'd like to apologize for all this.
Crown Description:
"Split" and "soft-split" are mutually exclusive.

Currently, the Batman Can Breathe in Space trope page lists several kinds of examples.
(1) Characters who can comfortably survive in space when this is unrealistic.
(2) Characters who can comfortably survive in space, explicitly on account of some internal property like superpowers or alien biology.
(3) Characters who can comfortably survive in space, with no explicit explanation, but superpowers or alien biology that could plausibly allow it.
(4) Characters who can comfortably survive in space on account of some external aid less than a full spacesuit.
(5) Characters who, like humans in real life, can survive a short time of space exposure, but may require medical care afterwards.
The trope description seems to imply the trope is exclusively about (1), but names The Needless as a supertrope, which appears to be solely about characters with explicit superhuman ability to survive things unaided, ie (2,3). (The Needless and Super Not-Drowning Skills disagree on whether the latter is a suptrope of the former)
As I see it, it would be plausible for the trope to encompass (1) exclusively, (analogous to Super Not-Drowning Skills) in which case we can leave the description as it is, except maybe a clarification that (2,3,4,5) are Not This Trope, but (2,3,4,5)-examples would need pruning. In this case, I would argue it is not a subtrope of The Needless.
Alternatively, we could accept that (1,2,3,4) are all valid examples, in which case the trope description should be updated to reflect this. In this case, it would probably still be a subtrope of The Needless.
(Relatedly - is Super Not-Drowning Skills a subtrope of The Needless? The former is explicitly restricted to examples without in-universe explanation, while the latter seems to only be about in-universe abilities. The Needless lists Super Not-Drowning Skills as a subtrope, while the latter only says "see also The Needless". I'd bring it up separately, but it seems to be substantially the same question.)
I don't think (5) is an example under any reasonable formulation of the trope, though perhaps current examples would instead be notable Aversions.
(A minor technical issue - turns out the title is supposed to be a wiki word, but I can't edit that. Hopefully the mod who does or does not unlock this can?)
Edited by LupoCani on Jul 8th 2020 at 9:33:14 AM