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JustNormalMusicLover Just one media nerd (Experienced Trainee) Relationship Status: Abstaining
Just one media nerd
#726: Jan 11th 2023 at 10:52:27 PM

From MARDEK according to this ATT thread:

  • Bittersweet Ending: Where to begin? Well, first you have to fight your own king. Who afterwards promptly dies. Oops. And did we mention that he's actually the father of one of your party members? Then it turns out Qualna wasn't even trying to get you to kill the king, and this is exactly the example he was trying to create to show Rohoph that he's gone off the deep end, and to get him to rejoin the Governance de Magi peacefully. (Although most of the Magi have gone off that end too.) Rohoph promptly kills Qualna too and seals his soul so he can no longer escape after telling her that he wouldn't. Mardek and Elwyen go to a play afterwards to lighten the mood, until Rohoph forces her away, to Mardek's disdain and anger. So now King Gonoroth and probably the most friendly of the Governance de Magi are dead, and Rohoph wants Mardek to have no more friends to become attached to. Yeah. At least Lone Wolf (Deugan) finally talks to Mardek's face, although he doesn't reveal who he is.

Approaches Downer Ending when you realize that Qualna was lying about wanting to use the Violet Crystal for good, but only because the other Governors were watching - he was trying to sneak Rohoph back to their planet in order to help him destroy the Crystal. And it turns out that Rohoph had been corrupted by the Crystal from the start into becoming a paranoid Knight Templar, and he no longer has qualms about forcibly taking over Mardek's body at times. Oh, and the world is slowly dying thanks to the crystals being removed from their temples, and Rohoph's presence might be slowly killing Mardek. Absolutely nothing you did in this chapter has accomplished anything good.

Downer status further solidified by a lot of things that seem minor in Chapter 3 but would have come back to bite the good guys in the ass in later chapters: Steele/"The Mysterious Man" still has the dark crystal; Blatantly Evil Chancellor had control of Xantusia while Ss'lenck was away; you gave a fragment or relative of the Violet Crystal to Vudu, the probably already evil high priest of YALORT; and oh yeah, there's this volcano which could wipe out most of the life on Belfan if it erupted, and the next Magus coming after you is the pyromancer of the group. Really, the only good things that you did in this game were making your party members feel good about themselves by listening to them talk about their problems, and driving away Saul and Muriance (probably temporarily). Well, and destroying the Annihilator, if you did that.

Goal is to cut it into reasonable length and either categorize it as Bittersweet Ending or Downer Ending as needed (regardless of which one, the ending is implied).

Edited by JustNormalMusicLover on Jan 12th 2023 at 2:53:11 AM

Nothing solves a day of depression better than a warm smile.
Ayumi-chan 3rd happiest man in Connecticut from Iacon City (Experienced Trainee) Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
3rd happiest man in Connecticut
#727: Jan 15th 2023 at 8:53:50 PM

YMMV.Tokyo Xanadu has this (under Broken Base)

  • The True Ending. Fans are split on whether the True Ending's better than the Normal Ending. On one hand, Kou gets a chance to bring back Shiori, and he succeeds, which ends off everything on a happy note. And the option to choose the True Ending is shown only if the player chooses to do a lot of the optional stuff in the previous chapters to get Kou's stats high enough, so it somewhat matches with the game's message of the importance of one's choices (which is unsubtly mentioned again and again by Rem). On the other hand, though, the retconning of Shiori's death is thought to undermine the idea that Kou and the other residents of Morimiya must learn to move on from the great lie that they had lived in, and to some even makes this feel like a "Shaggy Dog" Story as the entire build-up to this point is just undone like that. Moreover, it's made possible because of the Nine-Tailed Fox, of whom there were few to no signs in the foregoing chapters, and so he came off as a Deus ex Machina that the writers put in to give the story a happy ending that it didn't truly need, and so the Normal Ending is seen as bolder and more coherent. This is allayed by the After Story in the eX+ version, which shows off how Kou, Shiori, and the others are now doing and reveals that reviving Shiori also unwittingly came with reviving the Twilight Apostle.

Also bumping these two.

Edited by Ayumi-chan on Jan 16th 2023 at 12:55:07 AM

She/Her | Currently cleaning: N/A
RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#728: Jan 16th 2023 at 6:18:15 PM

[up]These are the changes coming to my mind on that particular entry are: changing "On the other hand, though" to "However" and removing the passive voice in the last sentence.

Edited by RandomTroper123 on Jan 16th 2023 at 6:22:34 AM

Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#729: Jan 20th 2023 at 10:34:25 AM

I found Why Would Anyone Take Him Back? entry for Once Upon a Time:

  • Rumple and Belle's relationship ran on this. While it seemed like a sweet and touching romance at first, Season 2B had Belle learning that Rumple murdered his first wife, Rumple exploiting Belle's personality rewrite into "Lacey" until it was no longer convenient for him to do so, and we learn in flashback of an incident where Rumple relentlessly tortured a man in Belle's presence and had made her clean his blood-soaked clothes in addition to treating her very poorly. When the two of them get married in Season 3B, Rumple's proposal came with giving Belle his Dark One dagger to signifiy that he trusts her with some control in the relationship only for that to turn out to be a fake dagger, as Rumple uses the real one to kill Zelena behind Belle's back, and from there continues to lie to Belle and even gaslight her at variois points in Season 4A until Belle finally learns the truth and banishes him from Stroybrooke using the real dagger. Rumple goes on to, in 4B, cyber-stalk Belle online, actually stalk her when he's back in Storybrooke, and have reality rewritten so that Belle is now his loving wife. Yet after all this, Belle takes a seemingly reformed and heroic Rumple back in Season 5A and they even have sex off-screen...which is followed by us learning that Rumple has become the Dark One AGAIN and is decieving Belle AGAIN. Belle has to learn the truth from an unapologetic Rumple in 5B and then in Season 6, the relationship hits its lowest point, with Rumple acting like an abusive ex-boyfriend menacing Belle constantly because he wants to take possession of their child that she's pregnant with (Gideon), and he even threatens to use the shears of fate on her to sever the baby's connection to his mother, fully intent on stealing the baby away from Belle to raise on his own. Even when both of Gideon's parents become more united in hopes of saving him from a terrible fate in 6B, Rumple betrays Belle's trust one final time by siding with his evil mother, the Black Fairy, for the coming final battle behind her back. But by the end of the season and on into Season 7, it's as though none of that ever happened and we're asked to root for Rumple and Belle's Happily Ever After, something far too many fans found to be an impossible sell.

Now this counts but 404 is definitely to much. Anyone mind if I trim it?

Edited by Bullman on Jan 20th 2023 at 12:35:24 PM

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#730: Jan 20th 2023 at 12:32:35 PM

[up]I don't have an issue with you trimming it.

Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#731: Jan 22nd 2023 at 10:13:12 PM

Found this monster on Our Werewolves Are Different:

  • Fortean Times reported on a rabbinical rationale dating from the fourteenth century that addressed the problem of werewolves in Jewish belief. Living as outsiders in Central Europe, Jews would have been fully aware of the belief in werewolves prevalent in the Gentile world around them. The issue was not if werewolves existed — it was taken as a given that they did. Therefore G-d must have created them, or tolerated their creation by Satan. The problem was how this could be squared with Scripture. A theological argument was advanced that when G-d cursed the serpent in the Garden of Eden to lose its limbs and crawl on its belly hereafter, the Almighty, by default, bequeathed a shape-shifting ability on such creatures. Later in The Bible, the Nephilim come into the world and mate with the daughters of Man, thus introducing a degree of angelic stock into the human race. By default, the Nephilim included the fallen angels of Satan. By mating with human women they introduced the shape-shifting ability G-d cursed the serpent with. (which neatly explains all werecreatures). The issue of the rest of Israel ganging up to nearly exterminate the tribe of Benjamin comes into it too: Biblical scripture notes Benjaminites had the suspicious and thought-to-be satanic trait of being left-handed. A line in the Bible likens Benjamin to wolves who strike mercilessly from the night. Rabbinical thought asked — what if this is not a poetic metaphor, but literal description of a tribe of werewolves within the Jewish fold? The near-extermination of the tribe then becomes an act of ethnic cleansing — to remove the werewolf taint from Israel and allow so few survivors (as there must always be twelve tribes of Israel) who are then explicitly found wives from other tribes, so as to dilute and hopefully eradicate the werewolf taint. And after the Babylonian exile, the lost tribe of Benjamin dispersed into the world, the werewolf strain not completely removed, and, losing their Israeli and Jewish identity, became the source of the world's werecreatures...

Any ideas how to trim this?

Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#732: Jan 22nd 2023 at 11:28:24 PM

Here's my attempt:

  • Fortean Times reported on a fourteenth-century rabbinical rationale regarding the question of werewolves, a popular belief among European Gentiles, in Jewish belief. The issue was not if werewolves existed — it was taken as a given that they did. Therefore G-d must have created them, or tolerated their creation by Satan. The theological argument was that G-d's cursing of the serpent by removing its limbs introduced the ability to shapeshift among such beings. This included the fallen angels who bred with humans to create the Nephilim, and thus introduced the shapeshifting trait among a certain portion of mankind (which neatly explains all werecreatures).

Up to you if you think the Tribe of Benjamin part is necessary as I think only the first half is needed to get the basic point across. But if you want it included:

  • This rationale was also tied into the story of the extermination of the Tribe of Benjamin. The Bible describes Benjaminites as being left-handed, a trait thought to be suspicious and satanic at the time, and one line also likens Benjamin to wolves who strike mercilessly from the night. Later rabbis interpreted the line as not just poetic but possibly literal, and that the Tribe of Benjamin must have been werewolves. Thus they destroyed the tribe to purge the werewolves but left a handful of survivors (so as to fulfill the requirement that Israel have twelve tribes), some of whom assimilated and intermarried with Gentiles after the Diaspora and became the source of the world's werecreatures.

Crossover-Enthusiast from an abaondoned mall (Lucky 7) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#733: Jan 23rd 2023 at 1:11:13 AM

First one's good! I'll swap it in in a little bit

Jawbreakers on sale for 99¢
Nen_desharu Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire from Greater Smash Bros. Universe or Toronto Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
#734: Jan 23rd 2023 at 4:01:28 PM

[up][up]No need to censor God/Yahweh.

Edited by Nen_desharu on Jan 23rd 2023 at 7:01:43 AM

Kirby is awesome.
RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#735: Jan 23rd 2023 at 4:33:07 PM

[up]"G-d" is just how Jewish people can spell God's name.

ForgoLight The Ultimate Lifeform Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: In Lesbians with you
The Ultimate Lifeform
#736: Jan 23rd 2023 at 7:05:37 PM

Scusa? I have noticed that My Hero Academia - Izuku Midoriya has a lot of segments that include major Wall of Text in the trope description. I am not too familiar with what to cut since I am no longer much of an MHA fan, so I thought I would mention it here to see if anyone would be willing to cut them down to size? I am mentioning this because there are multiple, multiple examples of it for multiple tropes and as I am not an MHA fan anymore I don't know what to cut to keep the description of the trope accurate.

"Us weirdos have to stick together!"
Bullman Enid Sinclair Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
Enid Sinclair
#737: Jan 23rd 2023 at 7:19:46 PM

So here is my attempted shortening:

  • While Rumpel and Belle's romance started as sweet and touching romance, it quickly became abusive. Season 2B had Rumple exploiting Belle's personality rewrite until it was no longer convenient for him to do so. Rumple's proposal came with giving Belle his Dark One dagger to signify that he trusts her with some control in the relationship only for that to turn out to be a fake dagger and from there continues to lie to Belle, with Rumple even gaslighting her until Belle finally learns the truth and banishes him. Rumple then goes on to stalk her when he's back in Storybrooke and have reality rewritten so that Belle is now his loving wife. Yet after all this, Belle takes a seemingly reformed and heroic Rumple back in Season 5A, which is followed by us learning that Rumple has become the Dark One and is deceiving Belle again. Belle has to learn the truth from an unapologetic Rumple in 5B and then in Season 6, the relationship hits its lowest point, with Rumple acting like an abusive ex-boyfriend menacing Belle constantly because he wants to take possession of their child that she's pregnant with, and he even threatens to use the shears of fate on her to sever the baby's connection to his mother. Even when both of them unite in hopes of saving their from a terrible fate in 6B, Rumple betrays Belle's trust one final time by siding with his evil mother, the Black Fairy, but by the end of the season and on into Season 7, it's as though none of that ever happened and we're asked to root for Rumple and Belle's Happily Ever After, something far too many fans found to be an impossible sell.

Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
bowserbros No longer active. from Elsewhere Since: May, 2014
No longer active.
#738: Jan 25th 2023 at 10:40:43 AM

This is on LGBTFanbase.Music:


  • Female pop musicians (tragic personal lives and creator breakdowns optional) with LGBTQ+ followings (usually gay men) have nearly become a cliche, to the point where said musicians often comment on it and occasionally come out themselves. Examples include Lady Gaga (a bisexual herself), Madonna, Kylie Minogue (Kylie is recognized as being one of the world's biggest gay icons, so much that "Kylie fan" has been used as a euphemism for gay men — plus she was also guest of honor at the 1994 Sydney Gay Mardi Gras, and Galavant cast her as "The Queen of The Enchanted Forest", the owner of a gay bar), Robyn, Dolly Parton (who has participated in quite a bit of LGBT activism and held events at Dollywood, and then there was the time she entered a Dolly Parton look a like contest anonymously with a bunch of Drag Queens (and lost)), Marina Diamandis, Kim Petras (a trans woman herself), Cyndi Lauper, Lana Del Rey, Tegan & Sara (both lesbians themselves), Beyoncé (while she didn't make any attempt to appeal to LGBTQ+ audiences in her work with Destiny's Child nor her early solo work, her "diva" status gave her solo work a dedicated Periphery Demographic of gay men), Ariana Grande, Elizabeth Fraser, Janet Jackson, Melissa Etheridge (a lesbian herself), Cher (notably, her comeback album Believe actually happened because Warner Music UK head Rob Dickins suggested she record a dance music album to appeal to her LGBT Fanbase), Vanessa Carlton (a bisexual herself), Tori Amos (whose gay following stems from her earliest performances in gay bars — Amos even claims her music is too emotionally raw for straight men), the Spice Girls, Carly Rae Jepsen (who has embraced her gay following, calling her relationship with them a "mutual lovefest"), Diana Ross (especially as her song "I'm Coming Out" became an unofficial gay anthem (in fact songwriter Nile Rodgers got the idea for the song after seeing multiple Drag Queen impersonators of Diana Ross at a club)), Judy Garland, and Barbra Streisand. Gloria Gaynor's song "I Will Survive" has become an anthem among the LGBT community.

In addition to violating the rule against general examples on Administrivia.How To Write An Example, it's a massive block that's difficult to sift through. It can probably be broken up into specific examples based on some of the names mentioned here, but I'm not sure how to do that given the way that it's organized.

Be kind.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#739: Jan 25th 2023 at 11:26:44 AM

As it stands it's just a Long List. Either remove individual examples and leave it general, or split them off into their own bullet points. Some of them are solid examples as is, but the ones that are not will either require some research to flesh out or should be deleted for lack of context.

Edited by AlleyOop on Jan 25th 2023 at 11:35:28 AM

bowserbros No longer active. from Elsewhere Since: May, 2014
No longer active.
#740: Jan 25th 2023 at 6:01:15 PM

Alright, based on what's in the post, I can come up with the following individual points:


  • Tori Amos gained a large gay following thanks to the emotionally-driven content of her work and the fact that her earliest performances were in gay bars — Amos even claims her music is too emotionally raw for straight men.
  • While Beyoncé didn't make any attempt to appeal to LGBTQ+ audiences in her work with Destiny's Child nor her early solo work, her "diva" status gave her solo work a dedicated Periphery Demographic of gay men.
  • Cher gained a prominent queer fanbase thanks to her longevity as an artist, her idiosyncratic flamboyance, and her constant cycle of flops and comebacks, which resonated strongly with LGBT experiences and made her a popular source of inspiration for drag performers. The fact that she played the lesbian Dolly Pelliker (a fictionalization of the real-life Dusty Ellis) in Silkwood only further emboldened her queer following. Cher acknowledged this part of her audience more than once, hiring a pair of drag queens to perform with her during her 1979 Las Vegas residency and shifting to dance music on Believe because the style was popular among queer listeners.
  • Judy Garland became a queer icon thanks to both her starring role in The Wizard of Oz, which resonated with LGBT plights thanks to its acceptance and empowering of social outcasts, and her troubled personal life, which was also something that many queer people could relate to. Her career as a musician constantly drew attention from queer listeners, who euphemistically described themselves as "friends of Dorothy" (after her character in The Wizard of Oz), a phrase that got big enough to lead to a military investigation. Some historians even posit that Garland's death was a contributing factor in the Stonewall riots just six days later and that "Over the Rainbow" at least partly inspired the gay pride flag.
  • Kylie Minogue is recognized as being one of the world's biggest gay icons, so much that "Kylie fan" has been used as a euphemism for gay men. She was also guest of honor at the 1994 Sydney Gay Mardi Gras, and Galavant cast her as "The Queen of The Enchanted Forest", the owner of a gay bar.
  • Dolly Parton gained a large queer following thanks to her involvement in LGBT activism and queer-held events at Dollywood. Her LGBT fanbase is prominent enough that she once entered a Dolly Parton look a like contest anonymously with a bunch of Drag Queens and lost.

The rest aren't elaborated upon enough for me to come up with suitable writeups for in the absence of prior background knowledge.

Edited by bowserbros on Jan 25th 2023 at 6:02:25 AM

Be kind.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#741: Jan 25th 2023 at 7:36:17 PM

If they don't, they probably should. I'm not the most qualified to write them myself, but I can elaborate on a few of them.

  • Madonna is considered by man to be the greatest gay icon of all time. She has been vocal in her advocacy for the gay community, having been one of the few to openly support them during the AIDS crisis of the 80s, and her songs are full of references to the LGBTQ community. Honestly, there's quite a lot of examples within the aforementioned linked page to write about, but I'm not sure which ones would be considered most pertinent.
  • Lady Gaga, who is bisexual herself, is often regarded as Madonna's successor for good reason. Many of her songs have heavy LGBTQ themes or are openly supportive of the community, and her extremely flamboyant persona is one embraced by many drag performers.

This Wikipedia article lists quite a few more and can probably be used to help expand on some of the above examples.

Edited by AlleyOop on Jan 25th 2023 at 7:43:03 AM

bowserbros No longer active. from Elsewhere Since: May, 2014
No longer active.
#742: Jan 25th 2023 at 8:06:36 PM

[up]Those two writeups sound good. So with that, the remaining ones in need of individual writeups are as follows:


When I find the time, I'll look through the second Wikipedia article and see what I can parse from it for the writeups.

Edited by bowserbros on Jan 25th 2023 at 8:11:55 AM

Be kind.
Berrenta Bejeweled (she/her) (Ten years in the joint) Relationship Status: I made a point to burn all of the photographs
Bejeweled (she/her)
#743: Jan 28th 2023 at 8:28:54 PM

Found this while doing TRS on Real Life:

  • The Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty bans all but 5 countries from having nuclear weapons,note  whilst allowing countries to have nuclear power for peaceful purposes. However, it is perfectly acceptable to extract weapons grade plutonium from nuclear fuel and storing it for "reactors" that your country doesn't have yet. And to have the knowledge to build a bomb, and the missiles/planes to deliver them. As such, many "nuclear-free" nations have the ability to build a nuclear weapon on short notice without violating the treaty. Given the fact that there are many legitimate non-military applications of some of the technologies used in nuclear weapons production - neutron sources can be used to "breed" Uranium-238 (an entirely unregulated material commonly available to states) into plutonium-239 (the weapons thing) but have numerous applications in basic and applied sciences - some of which were discovered when the U.S. started a military neutron source program with "civilian" codenames and ostensible purposes - only for the legitimate science becoming more important than the military applications as time went on. In fact, of the ten states known to have ever possessed nuclear weapons note  none is known to have derived the fuel for the first bomb from reactors intended for electricity generation - although North Korea comes closest, having possibly derived part of the material from a "Magnox" type reactor at Yongbyon, a decades outdated British design whose plans were declassified because who would be dumb enough to use it?, which was presented by North Korea as a "civilian" research and power generation reactor. The fact that it can be used for producing weapon's grade plutonium was a design demand back in the 1950s in Britain and led to some downsides in terms of power production that were remedied with its successor, the "Advanced Gas Cooled Reactor" (AGR) at the "cost" of it being worse at Plutonium production. The fact that North Korea went with the Magnox instead of the AGR is telling in and of itself

(Yes, there's no ending punctuation there at the end.)

[down] Done.

Edited by Berrenta on Feb 3rd 2023 at 9:28:19 AM

Edgar81539 Since: Mar, 2014
#744: Jan 28th 2023 at 9:19:07 PM

[up]Everything after "without violating the treaty" can go as it's blabbering trivia.

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#745: Feb 1st 2023 at 4:38:27 PM

Kudzu Plot has an enormous entry for Pirates of the Caribbean. Anyone more familiar with the franchise want to take a whack at shortening it?

  • Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest and its sequel, At World's End in particular, are infamous for this. In addition to both films being over two and a half hours long, almost every one of the seven or so main characters has their own goal or agenda which they are working towards, resulting in numerous instances wherein they either revise said agenda, betray one of their allies or compromise with one of their adversaries. To boot, Deuteragonist William Turner wants to rescue his father from The Flying Dutchman by obtaining the key to the titular dead man's chest and killing his father's captor, Davy Jones (the chest itself contains the disembodied heart of the latter, and is the only means by which Jones can be killed). The Big Bad, Cutler Beckett of the East India Trading Company seeks to rule over the seven seas by exterminating the various pirate factions that occupy them, while heroine Elizabeth Swann seeks to avenge her father's death at the hands of Beckett and settle down into a normal life with Will. Meanwhile, Nominal Hero Jack Sparrow seems to be juggling three separate albeit interconnected agendas at once — get Cutler Beckett off his back, settle his debt with Davy Jones, and gain immortality (the latter of which might even involve killing Jones and taking his place as ruler of the high seas). A considerable amount of screen time is also devoted to a Love Triangle between Jack, Will, and Elizabeth that feels completely unnecessary after the first film already made it perfectly clear that Will and Elizabeth were the Official Couple. Nearly half-an-hour of the third film is then devoted to the protagonists' efforts to rescue Jack from limbo (which has its own fair share of Mind Screw and Big-Lipped Alligator Moments), while an entire subplot revolves around their quest to recruit an esteemed pirate lord, only for him to be killed off so that Elizabeth can take his place as captain. The lattermost of these ties into the broader, overarching plot which sees many diverse factions of pirates (whom also have their own political structure and codebook that they must adhere to) reluctantly banding together to fend off the British Empire, which also involves a lot of blackmailing and lengthy negotiations between each of the parties involved. James Norrington is also shoehorned into the story at essentially no consequence other than to steal Davy Jones' heart, thereby allowing Beckett to blackmail Jones into doing his bidding and thus setting up a cliffhanger between the two films. As if all of this wasn't bad enough, another significant plot thread involves the pirates deciding to release a sea goddess from her human confines (which also requires an incantation ritual involving nine MacGuffin pieces) for seemingly no other reason than to have a maelstrom take place during the climactic battle sequence. This is without even mentioning the kraken (which is anticlimactically killed off between the two films), the failed romance between Davy Jones and Tia Dalma/Calpyso, Barbossa's return from the dead as per Calypso's will, the gradual loss of sanity in Will's father as he becomes evermore bound to The Flying Dutchman, or the numerous occasions at which the characters incrementally relay all of this information to each other so that their later behaviours can be adjusted accordingly. Suffice to say, many if not most viewers were left thoroughly exhausted by the end of it all, while others had already long given up on trying to follow the characters and individual story threads altogether (or simply ignored the plot and only stuck around for the humour and action sequences).

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#746: Feb 3rd 2023 at 3:14:57 AM

Can anyone trim this from Soulcalibur V.

  • The Scrappy:
    • Patroklos is not only the least liked of the V newcomers, but possibly the most hated character in the entire series. What makes it worst is a notable combination of the following tropes: Designated Hero, Spotlight-Stealing Squad, an Establishing Character Moment where he murders an innocent man in cold blood because Patroklos thought he looked Malfested right after saving the town; and the Ass Pull introduction of a new Deus ex Machina ability that Soul Calibur had never used before this game which only served to facilitate his Heel–Face Turn. This ended up being rather hard to digest due to the aforementioned Deus ex Machina elements, so when he finally had a change of heart, people had a hard time accepting it due to how blatantly artificial the development was. These coupled with everyone else being Demoted to Extra and the brief Story Mode don't exactly help Patroklos' case. Here's a glimpse of just how bad Patroklos' reputation is:
      • The official Facebook popularity poll held in May 2015 had him placed at nearly the bottom of the poll, with only 32 votes... out of over 10,000 votes cast in total. He placed #37 out of 45 characters, meaning that the "hero" of V had less votes than characters like Hwang, Lizardman, Rock, Li Long, Algol, and Dampierre and only just ranked above the mimic characters and Leixia, who's more unnoticed than anything due to being a Poor Man's Substitute of Xianghua. Even the staff was impressed.
      • Project Soul later did some revisions to the lore, including tweaking backstory details in various characters' biographies. While most of these changes were minor, Patroklos was completely slammed in his own entry as someone who secretly knew he failed Sophitia's heroic legacy even though his rough personality would prevent him from ever admitting it.
      • He was considered so bad, it caused people to take another look to other hated characters in the franchise and then warm up to them, including Yun-seong and even Rothion, basically making Patroklos the measuring stick of "character badness" (by which these once-reviled characters ended up falling short).
      • As explained in Memetic Loser, with news of the series rebooting itself for Soulcalibur VI, many believe this rewind was enacted not only because the first Soulcalibur is one of the series' hallmarks, but to prevent players from ever having to deal with Patroklos again, as Soulcalibur was (technically) the last game where Sophitia was still single. note  While there are those who hope that Patroklos won't turn out as atrocious as before in the new timeline (which could very well happen since Project Soul is all but guaranteed to ensure that Sophitia doesn't die off this time around), others are wishing for Sophitia to end up marrying someone else so that Patroklos isn't born at all and took Sophitia's official profile listing only her immediate family (and not Rothion) as a sign. That or they hope Sophitia will settle with just one child, since they generally find Pyrrha more acceptable and she is the older sibling out of the two. This came to a head after the release of Cassandra as DLC in VI, whose story revolves around learning from her original self how V is considered a Bad Future and being tasked with preventing it. While the OT Cassandra didn't mention Patroklos' part in it, it's something.
      • To put this all into perspective, the only real praise Patroklos ever gets comes in the playstyle department, him being the series' first male sword-and-shield user (and an admittedly flashy one at that despite being a Jack of All Stats) as well as carrying the torch left by Setsuka (though many would've still preferred having Setsuka actually in the game), and in the music department. There are also a few players who legitimately enjoy his smugness in battle because Pat comes across as a major troll. Beyond that, you'll rarely find people saying anything nice about him, and even fans who don't feel strongly about Patroklos will readily admit that V severely bungled what could've been an interesting Coming of Age Story about a revenge-driven boy whose love for his family led him to become easy prey for the machinations of both soul swords.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
fragglelover Since: Jun, 2012
#747: Feb 6th 2023 at 11:17:15 AM

This is on YMMV.Back To The Future Part III

Moral Event Horizon: This trope caused a scene to be removed from the film. Originally, the movie was to have contained a scene where Buford Tannen, ancestor of Biff, shoots and kills Marshall Strickland in front of the lawman's son. According to screenwriter Bob Gale, the scene was removed because it was felt that after Buford is seen committing such a deed, it doesn't seem right that he not die (and he can't die, seeing as he will need to live long enough to extend the family line). While one would wonder why the filmmakers simply didn't add a throwaway line implying Buford already had children, they probably felt that unless Buford was actually raising the children and being a constant presence in their lives, they would instead have ended up being put into loving homes, and thus, far less likely to become bullies themselves in adulthood. Plus under that scenario, Marty would likely be the one to kill Buford, and having the film's teenage protagonist kill another person, no matter how evil that person was, would have been too dark for the mostly lighthearted time travel comedy. The scene made it into the novelization of the movie, however.

bowserbros No longer active. from Elsewhere Since: May, 2014
No longer active.
#748: Feb 6th 2023 at 12:31:12 PM

[up]IIRC you can't write YMMV tropes for cut content outside of very specific cases like Fan-Preferred Cut Content, so it should just be removed altogether. If I'm wrong and it can be kept, then remove everything from "While one would wonder why" onwards, since that's just speculative troping.

(On another note, I haven't forgot about the example on LGBTFanbase.Music, I just haven't found the time to get around to the rest of the separate writeups.)

Edited by bowserbros on Feb 6th 2023 at 12:33:18 PM

Be kind.
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#749: Feb 6th 2023 at 12:45:25 PM

[up][up] Honestly you can just ditch the vast majority of everything after the first paragraph, beyond one or two major points. Here's how I'd rewrite it:

  • The Scrappy: Patroklos is not only the least liked of the V newcomers, but possibly the most hated character in the entire series due to being seen as a Spotlight-Stealing Squad who pushes beloved older characters off to the side and a Designated Hero who is introduced murdering an innocent man in cold blood because Patroklos thought he looked Malfested right after saving the town. It also doesn't help that the game begins on the Ass Pull introduction of a new Deus ex Machina ability that Soul Calibur had never used before this game which only served to facilitate his Heel–Face Turn, so when Patroklos finally had a change of heart, people had a hard time accepting it due to how blatantly artificial the development was. He is so hated, in fact, that fans started to warm up to previously-disliked characters like Yun-seong and even Rothion simply by virtue of them not being as bad as Patroklos, and a good number of fans celebrated the news of Soulcalibur VI being a Continuity Reboot as a way to never have to deal with Patroklos again. Even Project Soul has had little good to say about Patroklos over the years either, as well.

FernandoLemon Since: Aug, 2015
#750: Feb 6th 2023 at 12:53:40 PM

Woof, brace yourselves; this one's so long it doesn't even fit in my monitor. From Trivia.Tik Tok:

  • Banned in China: The app was almost banned in the United States, when then-President Donald Trump issued two executive orders in August 2020 to ban TikTok if a U.S.-based company was unable to successfully acquire the app by mid-September of that year. Microsoft and tech competitor Oracle were among the companies slated to buy TikTok; subsequent regulatory changes by the Chinese government related to Trump's order involving the sales of Chinese technologies resulted in ByteDance and Oracle instead negotiating a deal in which the latter would acquire a minority interest in the app's U.S. operations, in exchange for handling TikTok's U.S. user data.note  The planned ban, which was later blocked in court and likely ran afoul of provisions in the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA) shielding foreign-made "personal communication" and "informational materials" (including software applications) from being subjected to sanctions and trade restrictions by the U.S. government, was repealed in June 2021 by President Joe Biden, whose administration drafted a preliminary agreement with TikTok in September 2022 (the details of which are in the process of being negotiated upon) to address data security issues by having the app's American user data stored on U.S.-based servers, have Oracle monitor its recommendation algorithm, and having the app form a security expert board overseeing its U.S. operations that would report to the government. Since the attempted ban, some U.S. officials (including FBI Director Christopher Wray, FCC Commissioner Brendan Carr and Sen. Marco Rubio) have expressed concern about TikTok being used by the Chinese government to collect data from American users for surveillance use or using its recommendation algorithm to spread pro-Chinese Communist Party propaganda, citing a 2017 Chinese law requiring companies share their data with the government upon request (this despite the fact that TikTok, in the version that exists elsewhere, is not available for download on app stores within China); however, these concerns have largely been dismissed by the app's users, mainly because of these concerns being either supported by anecdotal evidence or based primarily upon the possibility that data could be accessed by the Chinese government, their roots in a broader campaign of anti-China sentiment by (primarily) conservative politicians related to domestic concerns about the country overtaking the U.S. as a top economic superpower and the Communist government's potential influence on the global democratic state, and public perception that such claims regarding TikTok ignore concerns about the handling of user data collected by social media platforms of American origin (such as Meta-owned Facebook and Instagramnote ). Two years after Nebraska became the first state to ban state employees from using the app, beginning in late 2022, several states led by Republican governors at the time of the orders (including South Dakota, Texas, South Carolina, Oklahoma and Maryland) have prohibited the app from government-issued devices belonging to state employees because of the alleged security concerns; Indiana Attorney General Todd Rokita also filed a lawsuit against TikTok and Bytedance in December of that year, alleging the app exposes teenagers to nudity, alcohol and drug use, and graphic profanitynote  as well as issues with data handling by the Chinese government.


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