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2020 Civil Unrest, Protests, Demonstrations, et al.

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Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#201: May 31st 2020 at 4:07:12 PM

Which is how you get things like one Florida PD having their officers kneeing in a show of respect alongside demonstrators, while you have another PD in the same state firing gas at peaceful protesters.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#202: May 31st 2020 at 4:12:01 PM

Exactly. It’s often frustrating for officers in more progressive departments seeing things like this happen, because the actions of any one officer reflect on everyone in uniform no matter where they are. Like I mentioned earlier in the thread though, it’s not enough to just do a good job.

They should have sent a poet.
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#203: May 31st 2020 at 4:16:52 PM

If you're a good cop, then join the protests. If you think the bad cops are giving you a bad name, that's all the more reason to join the protests.

Take off your uniform if you have you to. You are a person.

Edited by Clarste on May 31st 2020 at 4:17:12 AM

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#204: May 31st 2020 at 4:20:59 PM

They are joining the protests, often in uniform, that’s a big part of why protests in their areas are peaceful.

The problem is that good cops in bad areas are pushed to quit, fired or left to die in dangerous situations.

So you get a critical mass of bad cops in bad areas (with the bad being a mix between actively bad (the ones commuting police brutality) and passively bad (the ones refusing to stop brutality and either covering it up, socially punishing anyone who tries to reveal it or supporting unions who defend bad cops while rejecting good cops)) and a bunch of good cops the next county over facepalming.

Short of the good cops driving into the city/country of the bad cops and actively stopping them killing people there’s not much they can do.

Actually there is one thing, break their local union chapter off from the national organisation.

Edited by Silasw on May 31st 2020 at 11:24:01 AM

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#205: May 31st 2020 at 4:22:40 PM

[up][up] In a lot of places police officers are showing solidarity with protests, but don’t forget it’s also their job. Not a lot of cops are wealthy enough to be able to risk their employment at a moment’s notice.

Police officers need to start using their national organizations as a weapon against bad actors. Cut union membership, kick people out of technical organizations like NTOA, that kind of thing.

Edited by archonspeaks on May 31st 2020 at 4:24:45 AM

They should have sent a poet.
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#206: May 31st 2020 at 4:23:49 PM

I don't expect the good cops to magically fix everything, I'm just saying there is absolutely no reason to be standing on the wrong side of the line and feeling victimized by it.

Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#207: May 31st 2020 at 4:24:48 PM

As an outsider looking in,its reminding me more and more of the London riots,similar levels of destruction and looting,thankfully it's riots of that nature are rare in our country

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#208: May 31st 2020 at 4:26:16 PM

Also, cops are risking their jobs by doing their jobs too, if their jobs involve brutalizing bystanders and/or letting their colleagues brutalize bystanders. One very real option for solving this mess is to fire every single member of the problematic departments and start from scratch.

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#209: May 31st 2020 at 4:27:27 PM

Solidarity is good and everything, but sometimes that still isn't enough, and it may require the "good" cops to take a physical stand against the "bad" cops. When I see a "good" cop standing between the "bad" cops and the protesters, or taking steps to restrain the "bad" cops, even if it means risking getting hurt or losing their jobs, then I can say that meaningful internal reform of some kind is actually being made.

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#210: May 31st 2020 at 4:31:27 PM

One very real option for solving this mess is to fire every single member of the problematic departments and start from scratch.

Who would be doing that, though? The problem is that these departments are independent at a local level. State and federal governments have limited ability to step in and fire people.

We tend to think of “police” as a single entity, it’s thousands of tiny independent agencies that all operate differently.

Edited by archonspeaks on May 31st 2020 at 4:35:14 AM

They should have sent a poet.
HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#211: May 31st 2020 at 4:34:59 PM

[up][up]Going off of what archon is saying, there might not be anything the good cops can do other than shows of solidarity because they all work in places where this shit doesn't happen, and they can't exactly take a ride two states over just to join a protest.

[up]A more realistic solution, in my mind, is to make the organization less fragmented, at least making each police department answer to the State.

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#212: May 31st 2020 at 4:37:00 PM

Local government can do it. Mayors who want to get re-elected, etc. The public just needs to put enough pressure on them.

TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#213: May 31st 2020 at 4:38:44 PM

[up][up]

What they said, and what Alley said as well.

Edited by TheWildWestPyro on May 31st 2020 at 4:39:35 AM

Redmess Redmess from Netherlands Since: Feb, 2014
Redmess
#214: May 31st 2020 at 4:42:04 PM

Also, firing every cop across the nation would have immediate and rather unfortunate consequences. Consequences like the complete breakdown of law and order. You don't really want that.

Even just firing the ones in one department would cause huge problems for that area.

Edited by Redmess on May 31st 2020 at 1:43:41 PM

Hope shines brightest in the darkest times
PhysicalStamina ain't nothin' but a party y'all (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
ain't nothin' but a party y'all
#215: May 31st 2020 at 4:43:01 PM

I feel like that's already happening.

Do not spare the feelings of those who would not spare yours.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#216: May 31st 2020 at 4:43:03 PM

[up]It will also send the message that any law and order official is compromised and not worhting by their eyes, this require a more methodical piece.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#217: May 31st 2020 at 4:46:38 PM

Crime rates go down when bad police officers stop patrolling. This has been proven scientifically. Bad policing literally makes law and order worse than no police at all.

Edited by Clarste on May 31st 2020 at 4:46:58 AM

Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#218: May 31st 2020 at 4:48:39 PM

In other words, fuck the cops.

Silasw A procrastination in of itself from A handcart to hell (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
A procrastination in of itself
#219: May 31st 2020 at 4:49:03 PM

Yeah didn’t NYPD do “work to rule” (so not a strike, but a form of industrial action where less work gets done) and the city improved dramatically, because they were out harassing people less?

It might sound insane to fire an entire department, but if the National Guard are able to effectively cover for a department then it is possible, you just have to be willing to keep the National absurd deployed for long enough to rebuild.

You probably also have to convince a nearby good department to at least loan you some officers to help you rebuild.

“And the Bunny nails it!” ~ Gabrael “If the UN can get through a day without everyone strangling everyone else so can we.” ~ Cyran
eagleoftheninth Shop all day, greed is free from a dreamed portrait, imperfect Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Shop all day, greed is free
#220: May 31st 2020 at 4:49:09 PM

Brought it up elsewhere, but Georgia (Tbilisi, not Atlanta) fired 85% of its police force in 2004 and rebuilt it from the ground up. Worked out well enough in the end.

One day, we will read his name in the news and cheer.
Clarste One Winged Egret Since: Jun, 2009 Relationship Status: Non-Canon
One Winged Egret
#222: May 31st 2020 at 4:51:44 PM

The police like to portray themselves as the only thing standing between us and anarchy, but this is a myth.

archonspeaks Since: Jun, 2013
#223: May 31st 2020 at 4:52:54 PM

Crime rates go down when bad police officers stop patrolling. This has been proven scientifically. Bad policing literally makes law and order worse than no police at all.

That statement seems a little hard to believe. Got some sources for that?

there might not be anything the good cops can do

The thing for them to do is visible advocacy at the nationwide level. Link up with activists, pressure police organizations, that kind of thing. We know advocacy is effective, good cops need to stop letting bad cops control the message.

Edited by archonspeaks on May 31st 2020 at 4:53:41 AM

They should have sent a poet.
unknowing from somewhere.. Since: Mar, 2014
#224: May 31st 2020 at 4:55:10 PM

[up]Is more a rather sentiment people have on the polcies, the whole "well next time when someone rob you, do it yourself".

Which is a thing of people, they see polcies not as agent of law enforce me, but as agent of law.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

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