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2020 Civil Unrest, Protests, Demonstrations, et al.

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eagleoftheninth Shop all day, greed is free from a dreamed portrait, imperfect Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Shop all day, greed is free
#2026: Jun 11th 2020 at 11:10:51 AM

I'd be pretty worried for any police force better trained in using grenades than in de-escalation and dialogue.

One day, we will read his name in the news and cheer.
raziel365 Anka Aquila from South of the Far West (Veteran) Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Anka Aquila
#2027: Jun 11th 2020 at 11:16:11 AM

As someone that lives in a Third World country infamous for its chaos, I'm going on the record that police should only resort to the former if there's no other way to deal with things and even then that demonstrates a failure of the state to not be able to deal with its problems and the roots of said with means beyond force.

If your country is rich enough that it can afford peace, then why is your police acting like the social order is barely a step from the edge?

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.
Nuup-Kangerlua Defender of the Fleet from Up your ass - Second door to the left Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Defender of the Fleet
#2028: Jun 11th 2020 at 11:19:22 AM

Well if you think you can survive a situation like the Northern Suburbs of Marseille on a daily basis or events such as December 2018 and November 2005 without stun grenades and choke holds then you have not probably understood the real difficulties of urban order.

Edited by Nuup-Kangerlua on Jun 11th 2020 at 8:20:02 PM

Liberty, equity, autonomy ! Proud neoliberal cuckservative whore ! Now for sale !
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#2029: Jun 11th 2020 at 11:21:58 AM

How the hell are chokeholds essential for crowd control? There are other, far less risky ways to detain someone.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
Aszur A nice butterfly from Pagliacci's Since: Apr, 2014 Relationship Status: Don't hug me; I'm scared
A nice butterfly
#2030: Jun 11th 2020 at 11:26:11 AM

Have you ever tried to restrain a person without satisfying your own oxygen deprivation fetish? Look at them with their necks all exposed. They're just asking for it.

And don't get me started on those wearing scarves. Teasers, every single one of them.

It has always been the prerogative of children and half-wits to point out that the emperor has no clothes
raziel365 Anka Aquila from South of the Far West (Veteran) Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Anka Aquila
#2031: Jun 11th 2020 at 11:26:58 AM

[up][up]

And it's not like the crowd in question are escapees from a prison or members of a gang in the middle of a fight, they are ordinary civilians who are protesting against police brutality.

Edited by raziel365 on Jun 11th 2020 at 11:27:23 AM

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.
Nuup-Kangerlua Defender of the Fleet from Up your ass - Second door to the left Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Defender of the Fleet
#2032: Jun 11th 2020 at 11:34:51 AM

Yes and I would support restrictions on its use but not to take it off the book !

Plus we talk here of "normal" situations like the arrest for merely a fake banknote but my concerns as well as those of these Police officers in France are more about how riot control for the most abnormal situations of extreme mob violence would become toothless because of these decisions taken here and now on that emotional wave !

Edited by Nuup-Kangerlua on Jun 11th 2020 at 8:38:34 PM

Liberty, equity, autonomy ! Proud neoliberal cuckservative whore ! Now for sale !
ShirowShirow Dinosaur Hunter from Land of Maple Syrup (Old as dirt)
Dinosaur Hunter
#2033: Jun 11th 2020 at 11:38:27 AM

It has been repeatedly proven that they can't use them responsibly, so they shouldn't use them.

All this "But what if!" is ridiculous.

You are not alone.
Rationalinsanity from Halifax, Canada Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: It's complicated
#2034: Jun 11th 2020 at 11:39:30 AM

Even during an actual riot that wasn't triggered by the cops themselves, chokeholds are not needed unless your goal is to strangle (or paralyze) the subject.

Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects.
TheWildWestPyro from Seattle, WA Since: Sep, 2012 Relationship Status: Healthy, deeply-felt respect for this here Shotgun
#2035: Jun 11th 2020 at 11:40:10 AM

The protests in France and the protests in the US are two very different things despite sharing a handful of similarities. In contrast I can find way more similarities between the protests in Hong Kong and the protests in the US.

eagleoftheninth Shop all day, greed is free from a dreamed portrait, imperfect Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Shop all day, greed is free
#2036: Jun 11th 2020 at 11:42:28 AM

The Hong Kong protests started on the traditionally auspicious date of 6/9, for one.

One day, we will read his name in the news and cheer.
Nuup-Kangerlua Defender of the Fleet from Up your ass - Second door to the left Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Defender of the Fleet
#2037: Jun 11th 2020 at 11:47:43 AM

How can you deal without heavy weapons for de-encirclement mob violence like that ?

Those videos are from the Youtube account of Associated Press and with subtitles !

https://youtu.be/55RxqUTm66E

https://youtu.be/XvXrAmWgLVI

The West : Yes !

Edited by Nuup-Kangerlua on Jun 11th 2020 at 8:51:09 PM

Liberty, equity, autonomy ! Proud neoliberal cuckservative whore ! Now for sale !
ShirowShirow Dinosaur Hunter from Land of Maple Syrup (Old as dirt)
Dinosaur Hunter
#2038: Jun 11th 2020 at 12:54:01 PM

The whole argument is flawed. The police are the ones starting the violence, they're not retaliating. The only reason there's any panic or chaos is because they have those heavy weapons in the first place.

You are not alone.
DeMarquis (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#2039: Jun 11th 2020 at 1:01:53 PM

Axiom: The most effective tactic against violent rioters is a large mass of peaceful protesters. Take the time to communicate with them and they will isolate the looters and identify them for the police themselves.

I'm done trying to sound smart. "Clear" is the new smart.
PushoverMediaCritic I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out. from the Italy of America Since: Jul, 2015 Relationship Status: watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I'm sorry Tien, but I must go all out.
#2040: Jun 11th 2020 at 1:06:38 PM

Yeah, the protests are peaceful, it's the cops who are a bunch of violent thugs brutalizing and murdering innocent civilians just for the "crime" of telling cops to stop brutalizing and murdering innocent civilians.

Edited by PushoverMediaCritic on Jun 11th 2020 at 1:08:24 AM

Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#2041: Jun 11th 2020 at 2:02:30 PM

I'm not exactly a expert but from what I know of combat a chokehold would actually be a terrible idea for controlling a crowd. It's a move for which you need both arms, which by definition leaves you open. Doesn't even make sense.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
raziel365 Anka Aquila from South of the Far West (Veteran) Relationship Status: I've been dreaming of True Love's Kiss
Anka Aquila
#2042: Jun 11th 2020 at 2:53:05 PM

A chokehold is good to reduce a single person, and even then you have to be careful to not strangle the target, or worse, do something to his or her spine.

As I said before, the best tool in these cases are riot shields, that and putting your officers in tight formation, you want people to calm down, not to harm them.

Instead of focusing on relatives that divide us, we should find the absolutes that tie us.
sgamer82 Since: Jan, 2001
#2043: Jun 11th 2020 at 3:00:10 PM

Not sure if relevant here or not:

'I can't breathe,' Oklahoma man tells police before dying. 'I don't care,' officer responds. – Newly released video of the 2019 incident shows officers restraining Derrick Scott, 42, who is heard asking repeatedly for his medicine and saying he can’t breathe.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/i-can-t-breathe-oklahoma-man-tells-police-dying-i-n1229586

More definitely relevant:

Chicago police made coffee and popcorn in US Rep. Bobby Rush’s office while shopping plaza was being looted; Mayor Lori Lightfoot apologizes – Chicago Police officers made popcorn and coffee in U.S. Rep. Bobby Rush’s office while nearby businesses were being looted last month, he announced at a stunning news conference alongside Mayor Lori Lightfoot.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/politics/ct-chicago-police-looting-popcorn-20200611-je3afw3lxbhknicv37ijnncgkq-story.html

Attorney says 75-year-old man shoved by Buffalo police suffered brain injury

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/502334-attorney-says-75-year-old-man-shoved-by-buffalo-police-suffered

Edited by sgamer82 on Jun 11th 2020 at 4:03:59 AM

Altris from the Vortex Since: Aug, 2019 Relationship Status: Not caught up in your love affair
#2044: Jun 11th 2020 at 3:12:27 PM

You know, at this point I think just firing the cops is kicking the can down the road. They can just move to another city and get hired there. Normal people get prison time for murder, cops should as well, but the latter do seem to consider themselves above the law that they enforce and that's never a good thing.

So, let's hang an anchor from the sun... also my Tumblr
TuefelHundenIV Night Clerk of the Apocalypse from Doomsday Facility Corner Store. Since: Aug, 2009 Relationship Status: I'd need a PowerPoint presentation
Night Clerk of the Apocalypse
#2045: Jun 11th 2020 at 3:20:37 PM

A reason to not use those types of grenades the French keep ditching is because the explode. Which produces blast and limited fragmentation from bursting components. It was maiming people including officers. Even the US prefers the ignition type smoke CS grenades. While they can be a fire hazard in some conditions they are a lot safer than explosive dispersal. There are non-combustive dispersion devices and even grenades as well.

Sting Ball grenades are just as dangerous as rubber bullets but a lot more random. Some come packed with CS and double as a flashbang like device.

Edited by TuefelHundenIV on Jun 11th 2020 at 5:22:04 AM

Who watches the watchmen?
Hodor2 Since: Jan, 2015
#2046: Jun 11th 2020 at 3:38:30 PM

@sgamer -

I've kind of been pleasantly surprised at the relatively few bad stories about Chicago Police right now. But when they happen, they are disappointing, but not at all surprising.

As mentioned in the article, there was also a recent incident of the head of the Police Board (which reviews allegations of police misconduct) being beaten by police at a protest. Oddly, he still defended them.

Edited by Hodor2 on Jun 11th 2020 at 5:39:33 AM

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#2047: Jun 11th 2020 at 3:44:28 PM

[up]That's past the point where police is less a gang and inching ever close to being a cult, if you ask me.

Edited by HailMuffins on Jun 11th 2020 at 7:44:36 AM

NickTheSwing Since: Aug, 2009
#2048: Jun 11th 2020 at 3:56:24 PM

Kind of relieved that Newark CA Police Department isn't crazy. That's where my best friend works.

HailMuffins Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#2049: Jun 11th 2020 at 4:41:40 PM

Just in case anyone gives a shit, the itch.io Racial Justice Bundle met its goal of 5 million dollars with time to spare.

Golf clap to the devs that helped and gamers that bought it.

Edited by HailMuffins on Jun 11th 2020 at 8:43:18 AM

Robrecht Your friendly neighbourhood Regent from The Netherlands Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: They can't hide forever. We've got satellites.
Your friendly neighbourhood Regent
#2050: Jun 11th 2020 at 5:05:13 PM

[up] I just saw that and I'm really happy about that. I helped by buying it (may have gone a little... or a lot... over the suggested $5 price) and a bunch of my friends helped by making their games available for the bundle.

Angry gets shit done.

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