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M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#5476: Apr 21st 2021 at 5:42:48 AM

Here's a Euractiv article from last year pointing out that structural racism and Police Brutality are indeed issues in Europe.

Euractiv: Beyond the US: Police brutality, structural racism are a problem in Europe too

Semira Adamu was suffocated by a police officer while she was being repatriated from Belgium, Adama Traoré died in custody hours after he was arrested in France, as did Ousman Sey in Germany. The list, unfortunately, goes on and on.

“It is absurd to consider that racism is an exclusively American scourge. It gangrenes all over the world and in Europe in particular,” French MEP and co-chair of the European Parliament Anti-Racism and Diversity Inter-Group Younous Omarjee (GUE/NGL) told EURACTIV.

The issue is that Europe just is not talking about it as much.

Omarjee argued that it was in the US but also in Europe where “the worst theories of the racial hierarchy were born, which in Europe served as a justification for slavery, the holocaust and colonisation.” The consequences of which are still present in our societies.

Karen Taylor is an anti-racism activist and the chairwoman of the European Network Against Racism (ENAR). She believes that a lack of official data is part of the problem. When information is not collected, the problem does not officially exist.

The lack of aggregated data related to police violence, racist crimes and fatalities “leads us to be able to pretend that there aren’t such problems, which grassroots organisations have been reporting on for years,” Taylor told EURACTIV.

The last report published by ENAR in 2019 looking at race-motivated crime and institutional racism suggested that such offences are on the rise in Europe but often go unreported.

Disgusted, but not surprised
Wispy Since: Feb, 2017
#5477: Apr 21st 2021 at 5:44:29 AM

I also remember hearing that BLM protests also happened in Japan as well due to an incident over their were the police beat the shit out of a foreigner.

eagleoftheninth Shop all day, greed is free from a dreamed portrait, imperfect Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: With my statistically significant other
Shop all day, greed is free
#5478: Apr 21st 2021 at 6:04:18 AM

Australia doesn't see a whole lot of police shootings, but it's seen at least 432 Aboriginal deaths in police custody since the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody in 1991.

George Floyd's last words, "I can't breathe", were the same ones uttered by 26-year-old Dunghutti man David Dungay Jr. in 2015, when he was held down by several correction officers in his cell and succumbed to "positional asphyxia".

Edited by eagleoftheninth on Apr 21st 2021 at 6:04:44 AM

One day, we will read his name in the news and cheer.
GoldenKaos Captain of the Dead City from Cirith Ungol Since: Mar, 2014 Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
Captain of the Dead City
#5479: Apr 21st 2021 at 6:08:13 AM

The UK actually has a higher percentage of its black population in prison compared to the US, and there was an incident recently where a Black British man died after being in South Wales police custody with the force being very cagey over what happened to him.

"...in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach."
Gaon Smoking Snake from Grim Up North Since: Jun, 2012 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#5480: Apr 21st 2021 at 9:51:59 AM

Police brutality is also a problem in a whole lot of Latin-American countries, but the problem gets more sidelined due much higher actual crime rates. I think the US gets more attention because the police is very disproportionately violent in comparison to its relative crime rates.

"All you Fascists bound to lose."
RAlexa21th Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer from California (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: I <3 love!
Zettai Ryouiki Enjoyer
#5481: Apr 21st 2021 at 11:37:30 AM

I hope Legal Eagle will post his thoughts on the case soon. I'm most interested in Chauvin's chances of appealing.

Continue writing our story of peace.
Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#5482: Apr 21st 2021 at 11:39:45 AM

I see him and his appeal failing pretty hard to be honest

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#5483: Apr 21st 2021 at 11:43:15 AM

Not sure what he can appeal on.

The closest is jury nullification but that's nigh impossible to probe in this case

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Druplesnubb Editor of Posts Since: Dec, 2013
Editor of Posts
#5484: Apr 21st 2021 at 3:41:31 PM

I'm not sure what you guys wanted the police to do instead. They got a call from someone claiming to be assaulted with a knife. When they arrived on the scene the girl was literally lunging at someone else with a knife in hand. What were they supposed to do besides downing the attacker? Apparently the girl was actually drawing the knife in self-defense, but how were the cops supposed to know that? It's not like you can stop to ask a stabber about their motives while they're literally stabbing their victim. This isn't some anime where time conveniently freezes everytime someone opens their mouth.

Like, what is your ideal suggestion for how the police should have behaved in this situation?

Edited by Druplesnubb on Apr 21st 2021 at 12:52:02 PM

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#5485: Apr 21st 2021 at 3:47:11 PM

Yeah, I think it's perfectly reasonable to be skeptical of the police but when we're talking about a knife-armed assailant attacking someone I don't think that it's unjustifiable to use lethal force.

If law enforcement have to choose been the attacker or the victim they should choose the victim.

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Ultimatum Disasturbator from The Wiggle Room (Old as dirt) Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Disasturbator
#5486: Apr 21st 2021 at 3:55:28 PM

Ideally the police should have disarmed her so she was no longer threat,that might not have been possible under the circumstances though

have a listen and have a link to my discord server
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#5487: Apr 21st 2021 at 4:03:39 PM

Issue is that she's mid lunge when they fired. It's a split second decision at that point. Someone would have died either way of they did nothing.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Druplesnubb Editor of Posts Since: Dec, 2013
Editor of Posts
#5488: Apr 21st 2021 at 4:13:54 PM

Here's the actual bodycam footage. Among other things you can see the police shouting "Get down!" several times before firing, and giving her medical attention after she falls down. There's also no real time to defuse the situation, they arrived quite a bit away from her and she only comes into view when she's already charging someone.

Edited by Druplesnubb on Apr 21st 2021 at 1:27:31 PM

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#5489: Apr 21st 2021 at 4:14:53 PM

I think that if you don't warn a suspect but summarily execute them, you are a murderer.

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
Ayasugi Since: Oct, 2010
#5490: Apr 21st 2021 at 4:16:29 PM

They could have shouted warnings or used less lethal force. If the girl was that close to the would-be victim that a taser could've caused her knife to injure the woman, then their gunfire could've hurt the person they were supposedly trying to protect.

They also could have not shouted "Blue Lives Matter" to the horrified neighbors afterwards.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#5491: Apr 21st 2021 at 4:17:43 PM

Here's the actual bodycam footage. Among other things you can see the police shouting "Get down!" several times beofre firing, and giving her medical attention after she falls down.

Ok, I'm certain now. That was a legitimate shooting, she was far closer to her victim than the officer was to her. If he didn't shoot her then the girl on the car could've died or suffered a serious injury.

They could have shouted warnings or used less lethal force. If the girl was that close to the would-be victim that a taser could've caused her knife to injure the woman, then their gunfire could've hurt the person they were supposedly trying to protect.

Did you watch it? They did shout warnings.

This doesn't work logically, just because gunfire could've theoretically hurt the victim doesn't mean that it wasn't the best option. Tasers have a limited range and can cause spasming which is dangerous when the suspect had a knife, less than lethal options weren't practical.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Apr 21st 2021 at 4:19:30 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#5492: Apr 21st 2021 at 4:20:03 PM

[up][up][up]But they did warn her ?

Have you watched this video ?

Edited by miraculous on Apr 21st 2021 at 4:20:28 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Druplesnubb Editor of Posts Since: Dec, 2013
Editor of Posts
#5493: Apr 21st 2021 at 4:24:07 PM

They literally did shout warnings. Also, what sort of non-lethal force are you suggesting? Tasers are very ineffective at actually downing people. Going into melee range is not only much slower (in a time where a single second can be the difference between life and death) but is also extremely dangerous against someone armed with a knife, especially conisdering how poor the training American cops get is.

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#5494: Apr 21st 2021 at 4:25:36 PM

Also having someone spasm while holding a knife their using to attack someone at that range is a terrible idea...

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
luisedgarf from Mexico Since: May, 2009 Relationship Status: I won't say I'm in love
#5495: Apr 21st 2021 at 4:50:53 PM

Police brutality is also a problem in a whole lot of Latin-American countries, but the problem gets more sidelined due much higher actual crime rates. I think the US gets more attention because the police is very disproportionately violent in comparison to its relative crime rates.

The US also gets more attention between the incredible and very well-known dissonance between the application of law against white people versus against both local minorities and foreigners.

And that without going with the vindictive nature of the Anglo-saxon culture, especially American one.

Wildcard Since: Jun, 2012
#5496: Apr 21st 2021 at 5:09:00 PM

From.the bodycam footage they sure looked close enough to try a tackle, and I expect you to be willing to go into danger if your a cop so "that would be dangerous" doesn't cut it as an excuse.

Fourthspartan56 from Georgia, US Since: Oct, 2016 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
#5497: Apr 21st 2021 at 5:28:32 PM

[up]

This is incorrect, the knife-wielding girl was closer to the girl on the car than the cop. Trying to rush forward and tackle her would've given her enough time to stab the other girl.

Sometimes lethal force is justified, this is one of those times.

Edited by Fourthspartan56 on Apr 21st 2021 at 5:29:36 AM

"Einstein would turn over in his grave. Not only does God play dice, the dice are loaded." -Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang
Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#5498: Apr 21st 2021 at 5:29:57 PM

@Wildcard The word "dangerous" in this context means something closer to "borderline suicidal". Going hand-to-hand with a knife-wielding opponent is almost guaranteed to result in a life-threatening injury.

Leviticus 19:34
PhysicalStamina ain't nothin' but a party y'all (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Coming soon to theaters
ain't nothin' but a party y'all
#5499: Apr 21st 2021 at 5:45:08 PM

So, what, are people not supposed to try and defend themselves before the police comes? Just hope they get there before they get completely fucked up?

Do not spare the feelings of those who would not spare yours.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#5500: Apr 21st 2021 at 5:45:20 PM

Wouldn't something like that lead to possible everyone involved dying ?

Edit :[up]You don't charge and try stab an unarmed person. That is murder. Not self defence.

Edited by miraculous on Apr 21st 2021 at 5:46:45 AM

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."

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