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Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#301: Dec 3rd 2020 at 10:52:19 AM

After grinding Ambrosia, finally finished the Dusa questline and subsequently unlocked the epilogue. Let's see how this goes.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#302: Dec 3rd 2020 at 11:52:18 AM

I got the epilogue too! I still need Aphrodite and Demeter's bonds maxed.

The Protomen enhanced my life.
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#303: Dec 5th 2020 at 3:13:14 PM

This is probably a stupid question, but do you keep the bonuses accrued from the Butterfly / Plume when you switch away from that keepsake?

I couldn't find where the bonus is stated on the boons/bonuses/keepsakes screen after removing the keepsake, leaving me to presume that having the bonus is tied directly to having the keepsake on, but I feel like that doesn't make sense.

Perseus Since: Nov, 2009
#304: Dec 5th 2020 at 3:15:08 PM

I think it's logical that if you don't wear the thing giving you the power, you don't keep the power.

Edited by Perseus on Dec 5th 2020 at 10:15:38 PM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#305: Dec 5th 2020 at 3:41:22 PM

I guess, but it renders them significantly less useful than any of the other keepsakes that add to your kit - especially the Buttefly since multiple gods that you can invoke with their keepsakes give damage buffs which are easier to increase - and thus requires you to center your entire run around them in order to be useful (something no other keepsake at all does).

It would be like if switching away from Persephone's keepsake removed all the boon upgrades it gives. It just kind of weird, design wise.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 5th 2020 at 3:42:41 AM

Perseus Since: Nov, 2009
#306: Dec 5th 2020 at 3:42:39 PM

"High-risk-high-reward Self-Imposed Challenge" is the entire point.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#307: Dec 5th 2020 at 3:43:37 PM

Is it? That's more to the tune of the pacts, or the Chaos boons. The keepsakes are overall buffs that are utilized to strengthen or refine your kit in one way or another, with the exception of those two, neither of which are presented to the player as any more dangerous or not than the others.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 5th 2020 at 3:44:38 AM

Perseus Since: Nov, 2009
#308: Dec 5th 2020 at 3:46:04 PM

Hey, yes, if you switch Keepsakes and unequip the Pierced Butterfly, you will lose the bonus.

You can confirm this by checking the Boon Info screen (Back button on gamepad). The bonus should no longer be there once you un-equip the Keepsake.

Unequipping is a good option if your Tartarus run didn't go that well and you didn't rack up much of a damage bonus, but once you've sufficiently charged up your Pierced Butterfly it's generally good to stick with it for the duration of your run.

Straight from the mouth... er, keyboard of a developer. This is the design intent.

Edited by Perseus on Dec 5th 2020 at 10:46:22 PM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#309: Dec 5th 2020 at 3:48:08 PM

They should've made it more evident in-game, then (like literally every other risk reward mechanic they put in the game and made sure to meticulously indicate as such). Right now, it just looks like a pair of upgrade options that are explicitly lower tier than the others.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 5th 2020 at 3:49:18 AM

Perseus Since: Nov, 2009
#310: Dec 5th 2020 at 3:49:11 PM

I really don't see the ambiguity here but whatevs.

Edited by Perseus on Dec 5th 2020 at 10:49:37 PM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#311: Dec 5th 2020 at 3:49:47 PM

Also, wait a minute.

That quote doesn't say its intended as a high-risk/reward option. It just says it's meant to be incremental.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 5th 2020 at 3:50:28 AM

deludedmusings Since: Jan, 2017 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#312: Dec 5th 2020 at 3:50:00 PM

I've been meaning to try a heavy dodge build. Need more Blood to boost the Aspect of Zag on the fists though.

Perseus Since: Nov, 2009
#313: Dec 5th 2020 at 3:50:27 PM

I'm an idiot, ignore me, please.

Edited by Perseus on Dec 5th 2020 at 10:51:55 PM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#314: Dec 5th 2020 at 3:51:03 PM

[up] ... what's this in response to?

My last comment was about how the quote you posted didn't actually say what you said it did.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 5th 2020 at 3:53:19 AM

Perseus Since: Nov, 2009
#315: Dec 5th 2020 at 3:53:12 PM

Okay, forget it. I didn't mean to say the dev statement was proof of that. Poor wording, confusion, I'm bad at arguing a point.

To take a step back and take a deep breath, what I'm questioning is why some keepsakes following a different design ethos from the rest is so strange and unintuitive? I just don't get the problem.

Edited by Perseus on Dec 5th 2020 at 10:54:36 PM

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#316: Dec 5th 2020 at 3:55:23 PM

Just that those two are keepsakes that seems specifically geared towards playing a very specific way (a hi damage run or a dodge run, specifically), while the rest of them have varied uses and are geared towards making the player more versatile in different ways. It's the kind of effect you would otherwise see elsewhere in the game (the aspects, for instance).

Though I guess the best counterpoint to what I'm saying is that the Sisyphus keepsake exists as well.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 5th 2020 at 3:56:30 AM

lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#317: Dec 5th 2020 at 6:11:55 PM

My favorite keepsake is Cerberus's. i only take it off when achievements or Hermes' bond require me to.

The Protomen enhanced my life.
IniuriaTalis Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: Love, football, the arts, the occasional pint
#318: Dec 5th 2020 at 6:15:43 PM

As far as my runs go, it's definitely Patroclus>Persephone>Skelly if I somehow got to Styx with like 3 HP and a prayer remaining>the rest.

Does anyone actually read these?
Perseus Since: Nov, 2009
#319: Dec 5th 2020 at 6:23:06 PM

The only time I don't use Pom Blossom is when I want to get a specific boon before switching to Pom Blossom.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#320: Dec 5th 2020 at 10:19:48 PM

Aha! With the Daedalus perk that makes the Bow's Special do more damage with each consecutive hit on a single target, Artemis' Deadly Flourish (which buffs Special and gives each hit a critical chance), and Hermes' boost to Special speed, I have officially completed the bow's transformation into a shotgun.

Add that the Aphrodite perks that make attack inflict weak, and then the other that makes weak opponents take more damage...

Edit: To the point where I fought Charon for the first time ever and was able to beat him pretty handily, even if he did take a chunk out of me.

Edit #2: And now I've added Support Fire to it, which handily triggers on ever hit, not ever use of a special.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Dec 5th 2020 at 10:41:35 AM

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#321: Dec 7th 2020 at 5:44:45 AM

I generally take a god-specific Keepsake to force a build, the Cthonic Coin Purse otherwise. Broken Spearpoint or Evergreen Acorn if I'm doing EM 3 and 4. Sometimes Pom Blossom at the start, though I tend to go wide on boons rather than upgrade them much.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#322: Dec 7th 2020 at 5:55:03 AM

Any tips for getting Legendary Boons and Duos? I have some but not all. Ares' legendary I got twice by accident but I can't seem to get any others.

The Protomen enhanced my life.
Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#323: Dec 7th 2020 at 6:10:05 AM

Look up the requirements, they all have specific boons as prerequisites (from the broad like "any basic boon from god A and god B" to the hyper-specific like "you need this specific shitty boon to unlock it"). After a certain point (don't know what's the trigger specifically) Achilles' journal has info for each god on what their boons and requirements for them are. There's also a Mirror of Night upgrade (the alternate one for the penultimate upgrade) that ups your likelihood of finding Duos and Legendaries.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
lalalei2001 Since: Oct, 2009
#324: Dec 7th 2020 at 6:15:46 AM

[up] I'd just been picking them randomly. No wonder I had no luck. XD

The Protomen enhanced my life.
Perseus Since: Nov, 2009
#325: Dec 7th 2020 at 11:19:37 AM

After a certain point (don't know what's the trigger specifically) Achilles' journal has info for each god on what their boons and requirements for them are.

It's a House Contractor upgrade.

Edited by Perseus on Dec 8th 2020 at 6:19:49 AM


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