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Final Fantasy VII Remake Spoiler Thread

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MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#2226: Apr 18th 2024 at 7:41:54 PM

Nojima and Nomura are insinuating in interviews that timelines aren’t at play here.

Zack is just traveling through a bunch of dream worlds in the Lifestream and he’s closer to Tidus from FFX.

Edited by MadSkillz on Apr 18th 2024 at 7:43:29 AM

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#2227: Apr 18th 2024 at 7:53:18 PM

FFVII Rebirth Producer Kitase says that there might be some who expected Cloud breaking the barrier of fate in Remake to also alter what befalls Aerith. However, he says the concept behind the Remake Project is to generally adhere to the story of the original game… (ReU, 2024)

Nomura says that in the original FFVII, in order to depict the cruel loss of someone you cherish, they had Cloud be a bystander as Sephiroth killed Aerith. In Rebirth, they wanted to fight back against destiny and have Cloud make an effort to parry Sephiroth's attack. However when you actually lose someone you cherish in the real world, you aren't able to accept it right away. FFVII Rebirth strives to depict that inability to accept the loss of someone precious to you. Cloud's psychic interference reflects this state of mind. (RbU, 2024)

Hamaguchi says that if the third FFVII remake game is to follow the OG, then we'll pick up by going to Icicle Inn and the Northern Crater. The Weapons will appear, we'll get the airship, and so on. But he's still struggling with how best to actually kick things off. (RbU, 2024)

Kazushige Nojima says that in writing FFVII Rebirth's scenario, he studied Buddhism’s Yogachara and Jung’s theory of the collective unconscious. Referring to these should make it easier to understand how the game's world works, and may even hint at the story's ending. (RbU, 2024)

Kazushige Nojima says there was a period where he resisted the idea of taking FFVII Rebirth's scenario all the way up to the Forgotten Capital. At that point in time, the plot of the second game ended at the Gongaga mako reactor after Tifa falls into the lifestream. Using players' curiosity what would happen to Aerith as a way to draw the story along felt like rather poor form to Nojima. He thought it might be better to hook players with Tifa's fate instead. However, for the sake of fewer parts to the project, this plan changed. (RbU, 2024)

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#2228: Apr 18th 2024 at 8:35:39 PM

Man if what they wantes to convey with the ending was "Aerith is dead and Cloud is just in denial", they did a piss poor job of it. Didn't they say elsewhere that her fate was purposefully ambiguous?

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#2229: Apr 18th 2024 at 8:41:45 PM

Then why introduce the Screw Destiny theme at all, is what I'm wondering?

TheMageofFire Since: May, 2012
#2230: Apr 18th 2024 at 8:42:57 PM

I legitimately believe they got cold feet on the idea after the negative reception.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#2231: Apr 18th 2024 at 9:35:12 PM

[up][up],[up] To give you hope and then they made the ending confusing so you can live in denial like Cloud until you’re forced to accept it in the next game. That seems to be what they wanted to do.

They’ve been pretty adamant for a while though that this is still a retelling of the same story and this is leading to Advent Children still.

This is what Kitase said last year:

We are finally going to link up with Advent Children, that is going to be part of canon,” Kitase said. “The overall storyline, the developments, will not go wildly out in a way that will not add up to Advent Children in the end. I don’t think anyone wanted that, that’s not what we’re looking to create here. [But] to make sure it doesn’t become stale and people know exactly where it’s going, [that it] doesn’t just follow the original word for word, we add in extra elements which add that little bit of doubt.”

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#2232: Apr 18th 2024 at 9:59:29 PM

So everything from the plot ghosts on up were just worthless teases and the game is still headed for the same Bad End, yay…

SE you can take your lackluster sales and stuff it.

MadSkillz Destroyer of Worlds Since: Mar, 2013 Relationship Status: I only want you gone
Destroyer of Worlds
#2233: Apr 18th 2024 at 11:22:07 PM

So everything from the plot ghosts on up were just worthless teases and the game is still headed for the same Bad End, yay…

What makes it a bad end? Aerith's death? I'd call that more bittersweet unless you're really into Cloud/Aerith.

Because the planet is saved, humanity is saved, humanity gradually moves away from Mako and the party outside Aerith end up doing alright on the planet.

Edited by MadSkillz on Apr 18th 2024 at 11:24:15 AM

Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#2234: Apr 18th 2024 at 11:34:45 PM

Aerith's death sets the planet on the path to completely killing off humans. All the team did post Aerith's death was prevent Sephiroth from winning and kicking the loss down the road.

Edited by Memers on Apr 18th 2024 at 11:37:22 AM

Silentedge89 Since: Apr, 2012
#2235: Apr 19th 2024 at 2:17:30 AM

Writing Pro Tip; saying that your stated goal for adding changes was to keep people guessing but then coming out and saying, "But don't worry everything will still go all the same so that it lines up with X piece of media" is a good way to torpedo your initial stated goal.

chino514 (Apprentice)
#2236: Apr 19th 2024 at 4:33:09 AM

And even then, the Multiverse is a highly-debated topic on usage of it in media currently.

Demongodofchaos2 Face me now, bitch! from In a Cultivation World (Ancient one) Relationship Status: 700 wives and 300 concubines
Face me now, bitch!
#2237: Apr 19th 2024 at 5:13:46 AM

@ Memers: No, thats never what the original idea was.

There was supposed to be smoke rings in the ending with Red XIII that showed that Humanity survived, but weren't able to implement them in time for the final release.

And the idea that FFVII Remake was going to "Change the storyline" was something that never was intended since the project started, even with the plot ghosts.

Watch Symphogear
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#2238: Apr 19th 2024 at 6:03:07 AM

On the Way to a Smile - Lifestream Black and White basically covers what is going to happen to humans after AC, humanity is going to slowly die out as the planet reclaims everything.

That is where the plot ghosts first appear, on Ghost Aerith's side at the time trying to stop ghost Sephiroth from doing 'something'. That something is kinda implied to be something unique, which would likely be Time travel... which would explain much of what happens in Remake and beyond.

FFVII was a bad ending, even interviews leading up to Remake state that along with above.

Edited by Memers on Apr 19th 2024 at 6:04:11 AM

KuroBaraHime ☆♥☆ Since: Jan, 2011
☆♥☆
#2239: Apr 19th 2024 at 6:17:32 AM

I don't get what you're talking about. I read through the Lifestream Black and White chapters and it's just lead up to Advent Children. The thing Sephiroth is planning to do in those stories is just the plot of AC, not Remake.

Pokesamus Since: Aug, 2016
#2240: Apr 19th 2024 at 6:50:43 AM

On the Way to a Smile - Lifestream Black and White basically covers what is going to happen to humans after AC, humanity is going to slowly die out as the planet reclaims everything
I just read that and nowhere is this implied at all.

TheMageofFire Since: May, 2012
#2241: Apr 19th 2024 at 12:45:16 PM

Yeah see, them stating that ultimately the third part of the Remake trilogy is going to end the same as the original game just makes me think that they got nervous about doing the big changes the first part implied were going to happen.

Except now they opened that box, so they have to make SOMETHING come about of the Whispers, leading to that confusing mess of Rebirth's ending.

And it's incredibly infuriating because anything that doesn't involve the Whispers is some of the best writing FF 7 continuity has had, but maybe some of the best in all of FF.

And mostly majorly, this just continues to ruin Sephiroth as a character, tugging him further and further away from the initial conceit of him being a tragic hero who couldn't handle the truth of his birth.

Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#2242: Apr 19th 2024 at 12:55:19 PM

Sephiroth's plan is definitely going to be wildly different from a simple "absorb lifestream to become god", but the trilogy is still going to end with fighting Safer Sephiroth and preventing a meteor from falling.

PhoenixAct Since: Feb, 2011
#2243: Apr 19th 2024 at 1:01:22 PM

Y'know, I actually got pretty excited with Remake. The fact that the characters had apparently broken destiny, and now the future was uncertain was really cool. I was really interested in seeing where they took it.

However, my hype went way down after the ending of Rebirth; and now having confirmation that all the defying destiny stuff is just set dressing and the story is on the same track as the original, any hype I had is pretty much dead.

TheAirman Brightness from The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location Since: Feb, 2011 Relationship Status: Historians will say we were good friends.
Brightness
#2244: Apr 22nd 2024 at 5:13:32 AM

I think the comparison of Zack to Tidus is very interesting, considering what actually ends up happening with Tidus and the fact that FFX is canonically in the same actual universe as VII.

So I'm gonna say lets wait for the actual end before getting upset about if anything changes or not. They've suggested one thing previously, and now they're suggesting something different, why should we believe them now?

Also, can anybody provide a link to a source that actually confirms the fan misery porn obsession with the human extinction theory? Cause every time I've ever seen the original ending scene my only thought is "yay, the planet can in fact recover from our fuckups" - and its important to remember that humans are, in fact, part of the planet. More explicitly than ever as shown in Rebirth with the Gi being denied passage into the Lifestream vs humans becoming one with it.

(I'm aware of the Kitase quote given on the Flip-Flop of God page regarding FFVII - as a rule I don't trust any quotes given on the wiki without a linked source to provide proof and context)

Edited by TheAirman on Apr 22nd 2024 at 7:16:47 AM

PSN ID: FateSeraph | Switch friendcode: SW-0145-8835-0610 Congratulations! She/They
Moth13 Since: Sep, 2010
#2245: Apr 22nd 2024 at 7:07:23 AM

A source for fans believing in that theory? Idk, that seems inherently anecdotal. I don't interpret it that way, but I've seen a bunch of people do so because the ending does have an element of ambiguity to it.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#2246: Apr 22nd 2024 at 8:08:45 AM

I've more than once heard tell of a supposed Word of God statement that the original intent was indeed humanity dying off to save the rest of the Planet's life from Sephiroth. Never seen a primary source, though, and the context I typically see it brought up in is people complaining about the sequels existing.

Ninety Absolutely no relation to NLK from Land of Quakes and Hills Since: Nov, 2012 Relationship Status: In Spades with myself
Absolutely no relation to NLK
#2247: Apr 25th 2024 at 10:24:10 AM

If the Remake trilogy is indeed intended to hit all the same plot beats of the OG and canonically lead up to Advent Children, then I'm gonna be pretty damn annoyed. How do you even square Remake!Sephiroth, for starters? But more importantly, if everything around the time jannies and multiversal Sephiroth and Aerith and Zack's survival is just window dressing that'll end up not mattering... why even bother with it? To the detriment of several of the most impactful emotional beats of the OG, to boot? I hope this is just marketing-talk and waffling, because I'll feel very silly about being invested in it at all if it just ends up as an excuse to have a big climactic Sephiroth fight at the end of each part.

Dopants: He meant what he said and he said what he meant, a Ninety is faithful 100%.
bn2000 Since: Dec, 2022
#2248: Nov 23rd 2024 at 7:10:03 AM

The plot and script of the third part are ready.

https://www.dualshockers.com/final-fantasy-7-remake-part-3-plot-finalized/

The development of the game itself has begun. If so, I have a question: does anyone remember when approximately the developers finished the plots and scripts of the first two parts? What is the interval between them and the release dates of the games themselves?

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#2249: Nov 23rd 2024 at 7:27:27 AM

Having seen the reactions to Rebirth basically being the same plot with more set dressing about time travel and multiverse bullshit, it's amazing how the ending killed the momentum of this trilogy.

I had a feeling that Square wouldn't have the balls to do it, and I was right. Destiny cannot be averted.

But they also do this weird attempt at being vague as possible, so MAYBE Aerith survived, or maybe she didn't.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Bexlerfu Khatun of the Azim Steppe from Mol Iloh Since: Nov, 2020
Khatun of the Azim Steppe
#2250: Nov 23rd 2024 at 7:41:08 AM

What has the ending killed exactly?

I had been warned that it was undecided and open-ended and vague, and it appeared pretty obvious to me what happened. Aerith dead, Aerith in lifestream, Aerith also speaking to Cloud like Sephiroth does now and will help him find his memories in episode 3. The battle between black and white whispers will be mirrored in Cloud's mind, and, presumably, after the Darkest Hour of the Northern Crater, she will help him get rid of Sephiroth's influence and fight back.

Yes it's similar to the original game, but I mean, how weak would it be to turn a game which was made legendary by a character's sacrifice, into a pseudo-fanfic where everybody gets a happy ending?


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