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What are the classifications for Ultimate Evil?

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jandn2014 Very Spooky from somewhere in Connecticut Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Hiding
Very Spooky
#1: Mar 31st 2020 at 6:13:48 AM

I’m a bit confused about the concept of the trope Ultimate Evil. The basic concept of the trope is seemingly “evil character that is not shown onscreen because of how horrifying they are”. However, what I’m confused about is:

1. Does this trope still apply if the character is shown clearly at one point but is still not directly shown onscreen for the most part?

And:

2. Does the evil in question necessarily need to look horrifying if shown on screen?

I've noticed this trope has been misused a lot, and I plan to eventually bring it to TRS, so I'd like to understand what the exact classifications for this trope is in order to determine what uses are misuse.

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Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#2: Mar 31st 2020 at 6:57:35 AM

"Ultimate Evil is evil so horrifying it cannot be shown on screen." When it is finally shown, it usually results in disappointment, because the audience expectation can't be met by reality (or by the show's budget).

I don't know about misuse, but the description seems fairly straightforward. If it's being confused with Big Bad (or Greater-Scope Villain), it's wrong.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
jandn2014 Very Spooky from somewhere in Connecticut Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Hiding
Very Spooky
#3: Mar 31st 2020 at 7:55:10 AM

[up] Yeah, when randomly looking through wicks, I found a couple examples where the trope was confused with Big Bad or Greater-Scope Villain.

What I’m confused about is what the implications of being unseen means. You defined it as “so horrifying that it cannot be/are rarely ever shown on screen”. However, can this trope apply to villains that are not or are rarely shown on screen because it makes their actions seem more ominous and powerful (even if the villain when shown is not intended to look scary), or is that misuse?

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PlasmaPower Since: Jan, 2015
#4: Mar 31st 2020 at 9:46:29 AM

Honestly, I think it should be renamed to “Unseen Evil” or something because the trope name right now dosen’t imply what the trope is all about.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Mar 31st 2020 at 2:44:19 PM

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4tell0life4 Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
#5: Mar 31st 2020 at 10:29:22 AM

[up] Or at least "Always-offscreen Villain".

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jandn2014 Very Spooky from somewhere in Connecticut Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Hiding
Very Spooky
#6: Mar 31st 2020 at 11:33:44 AM

[up][up] Unseen Evil is a redirect that exists for the trope- I have no idea why it isn't the current name.

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PlasmaPower Since: Jan, 2015
#7: Mar 31st 2020 at 12:44:13 PM

[up] You should bring that up in your TRS query if you ever make it.

Edited by PlasmaPower on Mar 31st 2020 at 4:46:05 PM

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Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#8: Mar 31st 2020 at 1:13:57 PM

If it's just some guy, like Man Behind the Man, it's obviously not Ultimate Evil, because the point is that it's too terrifying/horrible/awesome to show to the audience. That is essential for the trope to apply.

There is some overlap with Eldritch Abomination, because that's something too awful or terrifying to be comprehended without going insane. If the abomination remains offscreen for the whole work and we are merely told how horrible it is, that's an example of Ultimate Evil.

I agree that the trope title is a little easy to misuse.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#9: Mar 31st 2020 at 1:14:55 PM

I've seen it misused as "biggest evil in the setting (not necessarily actually present in the story)" far too often. I've had people fight me on examples because they clearly haven't read the definition. "He's explicitly called the ultimate evil, how is that not this trope?"

jandn2014 Very Spooky from somewhere in Connecticut Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Hiding
Very Spooky
#10: Mar 31st 2020 at 1:21:23 PM

So from what I can tell, the requirements for this trope are:

  • Must not be clearly shown onscreen for the most part

  • The reason for them not being shown is that they're too horrifying to be shown on screen

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Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#11: Mar 31st 2020 at 2:34:31 PM

[up] Or too amazing, awesome, incomprehensible, etc. The point is that you build them up so much that anything you show to the audience would be a letdown.

Think of Gozer in Ghostbusters. When it's a voice behind a doorway into an alternate dimension with weird and unknown powers, it's terrifying. When it manifests as a giant marshmallow man, all of a sudden there's something comprehensible to deal with. The mystery is gone. I'm not saying that Gozer is an example necessarily, but it demonstrates the idea.

Generally, an Ultimate Evil is too powerful to actually do anything directly. Imagine a being so immense that its merest touch can obliterate planets. You can't put that on screen and have the heroes fight it, because it would be ridiculous, like Spider-Man battling Galactus. Most of the time, you have to find indirect ways to deal with it.

Edited by Fighteer on Mar 31st 2020 at 5:38:02 AM

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
WarJay77 Bonnie's Artistic Cousin from The Void (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
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#12: Mar 31st 2020 at 2:37:32 PM

Right; if you build up something as abstract and incredible beyond comparison, you're running off of Nothing Is Scarier, and showing anything would ruin the impact because the audience is free to judge if they think the monster or villain is that incredible/awesome/scary etc.

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jandn2014 Very Spooky from somewhere in Connecticut Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Hiding
Very Spooky
#13: Mar 31st 2020 at 7:32:24 PM

[up][up] That makes sense. Does that mean any examples in where the villain is shown are examples of misuse?

I’m assuming this trope also applies to characters who do technically appear on screen, but their full appearance is obscured (like The Beast, as seen in the page image).

Also, is it fine if the villain is shown very briefly at one point?

Edited by jandn2014 on Mar 31st 2020 at 10:35:14 AM

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Fighteer Lost in Space from The Time Vortex (Time Abyss) Relationship Status: TV Tropes ruined my love life
Lost in Space
#14: Apr 1st 2020 at 4:26:21 AM

It is consistent with the trope if, when the Ultimate Evil finally does appear, it fails to live up to its hype. However, if it's exactly as awesome or terrifying as promised, it does not count.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"
jandn2014 Very Spooky from somewhere in Connecticut Since: Aug, 2017 Relationship Status: Hiding
Very Spooky
#15: Apr 1st 2020 at 5:04:59 AM

[up] That makes sense, but the problem is, feeling if a villain’s appearance lives up to their actions or not is an opinion. When I bring this to TRS, should we should redefine the trope a bit?

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