Sorry for the wait, ~Ferot_Dreadnaught.
As a thread has recently been cleared away, opened for discussion.
I agree that this shouldn't allow on-page examples (minus In-Universe ones).
Edited by jandn2014 on May 30th 2020 at 9:51:24 AM
As explained on this thread,
Flame Bait does allow on-page examples unless it's also on Definition-Only Pages, so keep examples. Examples often fit multiple tropes; just because you can find another trope that fits doesn't mean it's not tropeworthy.
Edited by rjd1922 on May 29th 2020 at 11:58:29 AM
Keet cleanupHuh. Lots of links from work pages
for a trope supposedly Flame Bait.
If there are in-universe examples on the wiki, then I'm fine with IUEO. Otherwise, making this a Definition Only Page would be more practical.
Edited by GastonRabbit on May 30th 2020 at 10:25:34 AM
I got a rock for Halloween.I've counted 23 at most intentional, discussed, or in-universe examples. That's out of 542 total example after I removed several as Flame Bait. Out of Character can be used as a replacement for many of them.
I found a potential problem with the in-universe examples:
- Character Derailment: There are In-Universe reactions to this in Everfree.
- The analysts are not happy that human Filthy Rich is being portrayed as a Corrupt Corporate Executive, when his Equestrian counterpart has been an aversion to that trope.
- They are also not happy that human Rarity gets flanderized to just care about fashion, unlike the Hidden Depths of her counterpart.
- Mau Ler:
- Character Derailment:
- Has this problem with the original series cast in The Last Jedi, as it takes the image of them built up over the franchise and derails them for the sake of the plot. While he acknowledges characters can change, the problem is that they do so in a way that has no logical path or build up behind it, abruptly breaking the foundation of their character rather than making the change feel natural over time.
- Finds Game of Thrones Season 8 to be disastrous because of this, whether it be Tyrion appealing to Cersei's better nature (despite previously making it clear he despises her for her attitude towards him and her repeated attempts to get him killed), Jon telling Ghost to go to with the wildlings without giving him a proper goodbye (when previously he treated Ghost like family), or Jaime and Daenerys abruptly turning on the principles they've been developing the past seasons with little to no buildup beforehand, causing the plot to feel rushed and go in directions that seem to come out of nowhere.
The Last Jedi has been extensively deemed non-examples by this wiki. Game of Thrones isn't wrong but fails to explain how it's derailment as opposed to one off OOC moments.
- Character Rerailment: From the author’s conservative Christian perspective having two morally upstanding characters like Korra and Asami enter a same-gender relationship is Character Derailment, so having them not do that, and even having Asami express disgust at the prospect, is an attempt at this.
I intend to cut or move to Fix Fic as Rerailment is YMMV so even if it's intended it's not this if audiences disagree which I believe is the case? Thoughts on if it should be cut or moved?
The problem with making it in-universe only is that it's so contentious that what's deemed Character Derailment in-universe isn't this by this wiki's definition. But on the subject of in-universe...
- Character Derailment: In-Universe. His handling of Padme is completely different from how the GM did it.
This Show Within a Show example is the only example that I think is a 100% accurate use of the trope that isn't OOC or Adaptation Personality Change. Any other tropes this can fall? If so I can't think of any reason to allow even in-universe examples.
Too tired to completely decide whether this should be IUEO or definition-only, but anyway...
If we make this a definition-only page, there's precedent for the existence of a definition-only Flame Bait page with non-Flame Bait, non-definition-only subtropes, since that's what Internet Backdraft was turned into last year. As a result, if we turn Character Derailment into a definition-only page (which it would have to be if we remove on-page examples, since wicks are already forbidden), the subtropes that are listed could be left alone.
Edited by GastonRabbit on May 31st 2020 at 2:02:21 PM
I got a rock for Halloween.Personally, I'd like to clean up examples, but I don't know how worth it it would be. The presence of Character Rerailment on pages where Derailment has not been established outside of the trope's page is also giving me pause as to the proper course of action.
Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
Reralilment also applies to Flanderization or any other developments that aren't Derailment (unexplained changes).
Being frank?
I'm not even sure I know what the problem is.
It's already Flame Bait. Of course it's used for complaining. As long as we can make sure it's kept to other Flame Bait pages or Darth, what's the actual problem?
I'm like genuinely asking here. I've been trying to wrap my head around it for a while but since nobody else seems to want to say anything...I might as well. Who knows? Maybe the lack of responses are because other people are like me and just don't know what to say.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
I agree. It's already in Darth Flame Bait, so I don't see a problem.
Edited by rjd1922 on Jul 12th 2020 at 10:25:19 AM
Keet cleanup
Character Derailment isn't on Darth Wiki, but it currently has examples, similarly to Flame Bait pages on Darth Wiki (such as So Bad, It's Horrible and Idiot Programming).
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If wicks are restricted to Flame Bait pages, that's fine. For example, Internet Backdraft has wicks on So Bad, It's Horrible pages. But yeah, the whole point of the Flame Bait category is that pages listed there are related to complaining.
Anyway, I won't complain (heh) if we just let this thread clock out.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Jul 10th 2020 at 2:12:54 PM
I got a rock for Halloween.![]()
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The problem is not wicks or Darth, but a question of why does Character Derailment allow on-page examples when most other Flame Bait tropes do not?
Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Jul 11th 2020 at 2:00:17 AM
Because...they aren't really hurting anything by being confined to the space?
Other Flame Bait tropes that allow on-page examples are:
- Character Alignment
- Dethroning Moment of Suck (obviously)
- Fallen Creator
- Snark Bait
- Periphery Hatedom
- Ruined FOREVER
- So Bad, It's Horrible (obviously)
The ones that don't are more for describing specific terms (like Mary Sue or Fan Dumb) or decided that examples would just be utterly pointless anyway (like Unpleasable Fanbase).
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper WallI thought Snark Bait is an index rather then being allows on page examples.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."Eh, okay, was wrong about Snark Bait. But the others are true.
Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall

Awhile back I brought up
examples of Character Derailment I though misused, this brought up a question. Why do does Character Derailment allow on page examples if it's Flame Bait for which other examples aren't allowed any examples (save Periphery Hatedom)? I asked here
and here
and god no answer. I asked two mods and even they didn't know and recommended I take it here.
Let't look at some of the examples:
That's not even getting into fanworks which may all fall under Adaptation Personality Change and oft run afoul with Examples Are Not General.
Discounting in-universe, effectively 100% are used for complaining as opposed to how the changes are unexplained/inexplicable. Explaining how the cause of the changes are unexplained sounds like a level of complexity beyond what can ne expected of a trope that produces such strong emotions.
The only ones that don't discuss production circumstances outside the work caused it, which is redundant with Trivia tropes.
I see no reason to keep non in-universe examples as 1. all legitimate points or issues can go under existing tropes (which would require the level of thought and analysis missing in most Derailment examples)t 2. it's attracting knee-jerk and vitriol such almost all examples fail to give examples sufficient analysis to determine if it's really unexplained or they're just not happy with the change or explanations. What counts as sufficient explanation (something fans will accept even if they dislike the development) sounds like Dude, Not Funny!, too subjective and contentious even for a YMMV.
And why does Periphery Hatedom allow examples (groups hating works they aren't expected to care about doesn't seem the kind of analysis this wiki does)? I ask because the only argument given for keeping Character Derailment Example was Periphery Hatedom also allows examples.
Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught on Apr 7th 2020 at 11:51:07 AM