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Hindsight Cleanup

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The Hindsight tropes, Hilarious in Hindsight, Harsher in Hindsight, and Heartwarming in Hindsight, are among the most misused Audience Reaction tropes on this site. Many people don't understand that the tropes require more than just "This happened, so that happened", and end up adding examples which either lack connection or the substance that makes them funny/serious/not-so-funny/heartwarming. Some of them may be suited better for other tropes (ex: Life Imitates Art), while some may not belong on TV Tropes at all (such as ones involving politicians, due to Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment).

Please report any Hindsight example that you feel are questionable, and we'll analyze them to see if they are actually examples or not.

Remember that the Hindsight tropes are Audience Reactions. That means if an example under review discusses significant fan response pointing out the hindsight, the example can't be cut solely for being too tenuous for this thread.

    Common NOT in Hindsight examples 
  • Creator's character/portrayal dies in work and then creator dies in real life, unless their fictional death is closely similar to their real one (such as Billy Bob Joe portraying a character who dies from pancreatic cancer, then Billy Bob dies from pancreatic cancer himself)
  • Mundane word related to something terrible (such as "corona" or "Epstein") unless there's more to the connection (such as someone named "Corona" having the flu)
  • Creator appears in work then becomes more controversial later on.
  • A common event (such as a typical natural disaster) happens in work, then happens in real life (unless they are closely similar, such as the event happening to the same area in both reality and fiction around the same time) For once, not everything related to disease has to do with COVID-19, not everything related to racism and Police Brutality has to do with George Floyd and Black Lives Matter, and not everything related to sexual abuse has to do with #MeToo.
  • A common/generic concept was used in this work and then later reused in that work (too loose for a connection, unless the concept is so unique it's identified with the work)
  • Two actors appear together then do so in another work
  • Hindsight examples involving recent events, due to them often being shoehorns. Specifically:
    • COVID-19 examples, before 75% of the population has returned to normal
    • George Floyd/2020 Black Lives Matter examples, before protests have declined
  • Examples which fall guilty of Older Than They Think, such as "Make X Great Again" slogans. Aside from violating the ROCEJ, this slogan has been in use since the 1940s.
  • Characters using slurs which are treated as annoying at worst in the work, but is now harsher due to how severe the slur is made now. Discrimination has always existed with that slur. (May qualify for Values Dissonance if work is at least 20 years old.)

Note: As of January 2022, "Funny Aneurysm" Moment is no longer separate from Harsher in Hindsight.
  • The former redirects to the latter and all wicks to the former (with the exception of ones on archive pages and the YMMV Redirects index) must either be moved to the latter (if they're valid) or removed (if they're invalid).
  • The subpages for the former are still accessible from this page. After a subpage for "Funny Aneurysm" Moment has been completely cleaned up, turn it into a redirect to the Harsher in Hindsight subpage for the same medium to preserve inbounds.

Edited by Tabs on Jun 21st 2023 at 11:51:25 AM

MGD107 Since: Feb, 2015
#6851: Aug 3rd 2023 at 2:35:42 PM

Found this on Homer Of Seville:

  • Harsher in Hindsight: The situation with Homer and Julia, where a female subordinate has sexual desire towards the male celebrity she's working under, can be uncomfortable in light of the #Me Too! movement.

In the episode its Julia who's harassing Homer, to the point of only getting the job cause she's a Loony Fan. Likewise I'm not really sure how it fits into the controversy. Feels like a cut, thoughts?

miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#6852: Aug 3rd 2023 at 2:40:47 PM

Huh. Didn't she try to like try and Bed Trick him and threatened to get him kicked out of his marriage on false rape allegations. Thats pretty gross to use that comparison when he wasn't interested in her.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
UchuuFlamenco Since: Jul, 2017
#6853: Aug 3rd 2023 at 8:02:37 PM

There are two ways to interpret that entry: Either it's trying to portray Homer as the abuser, or it's trying to say that sexual abuse victims are Loony Fans attracted to male celebrities. Both are pretty bad.

I feel there is a tendency to shoehorn references of #MeToo in Hindsight entries for any work depicting sexual abuse or power imbalances, regardless if it fits or not. It's weird. It often feels like it's trying to say that until recently no one thought those things were bad.

bowserbros No longer active. from Elsewhere Since: May, 2014
No longer active.
#6854: Aug 3rd 2023 at 8:49:57 PM

IIRC a Harsher in Hindsight example for The Angriest Man in Brooklyn was removed for simply being a case of actor mortality, but having seen the film myself, I think there's grounds to argue that there are genuine parallels beyond Robin Williams playing someone who dies.

Specifically, his character is diagnosed with a fatal brain aneurysm, and his suicide attempt in the film's climax is partly an attempt to avoid the oncoming agony of it; Williams' own suicide months after the film's release was partly due to being diagnosed with Parkinson's disease (later posthumously corrected to Lewy body dementia), so even if the diagnosis and method of death were different, the fact that the character and actor were both Driven to Suicide after a fatal prognosis feels close enough to count, especially given the film's proximity to his death.

With that in mind, how would this look for a writeup?


  • The Angriest Man in Brooklyn sees Robin Williams play a man who is diagnosed with a fatal brain aneurysm. Believing that he has only 90 minutes to live, the film's climax sees him attempt suicide to avoid the suffering of his condition. Just three months after the film's release, Williams himself successfully committed suicide after being diagnosed with a fatal disease of his own — Parkinson's disease (which was posthumously amended to dementia with Lewy bodies). As a further parallel, both Williams and his character were cremated after their deaths and had their ashes scattered over the water.

Be kind.
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#6855: Aug 3rd 2023 at 9:29:26 PM

I think that's valid because of multiple eerie parallels between Williams' character's fate and his own.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
bowserbros No longer active. from Elsewhere Since: May, 2014
No longer active.
#6856: Aug 3rd 2023 at 10:34:44 PM

[up]Alright; added it in and cited this thread.

Be kind.
Ayumi-chan 3rd happiest man in Connecticut from Iacon City (Experienced Trainee) Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
3rd happiest man in Connecticut
#6857: Aug 4th 2023 at 3:11:23 AM

Found these on YMMV.Zom 100 Bucket List Of The Dead

She/Her | Currently cleaning: N/A
dsneybuf (Not-So-Newbie)
#6858: Aug 4th 2023 at 6:20:16 AM

NVM

Edited by dsneybuf on Aug 4th 2023 at 8:22:24 AM

AudioSpeaks2 Since: Apr, 2022
#6859: Aug 8th 2023 at 7:35:19 PM

I was told in the ITAE thread to bring this here.

YMMV.Two Set Violin

  • Harsher in Hindsight: As more and more violists are genuinely hurt by and speaking out against viola jokes, this Running Gag on the channel becomes hard to watch.

Violinists, or general musicians, defending viola players and violas isn't a new thing that rose after TwoSet making a Running Gag about it, if I recall. Feels like misuse. What do you guys think?

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#6860: Aug 9th 2023 at 7:43:27 AM

From YMMV.Barbie 2023:

  • Harsher in Hindsight: The movie opens with a song from Lizzo, which makes sense given she is seen as one of the more uplifting and wholesome artists in pop music... at least until a couple weeks after the film came out, when some pretty heinous allegations came out regarding how she treated her workers.

Is that enough of a connection to the song to justify a hindsight mention? Also conscious the allegations are still being explored and may or may not be upheld/dismissed.

nrjxll Since: Nov, 2010 Relationship Status: Not war
#6861: Aug 9th 2023 at 7:48:56 AM

I don't even know who this person is let alone anything about her moral character, which is obviously anecdotal but still makes me think the example not just going "artist associated with this film allegedly is a bad person", but "artist was chosen for this film specifically because she's allegedly an unusually good person and her moral character is the first thing viewers think about when they hear the song in question" is likely to be a real stretch.

dsneybuf (Not-So-Newbie)
#6862: Aug 9th 2023 at 7:48:59 AM

Additionally, this Hilarious in Hindsight entry looks either incomplete or invalid:

  • Hilarious in Hindsight: With this scene in the 2018 historical drama Mary Queen of Scots where Robbie played the role of Queen Elizabeth I, whose wig and lead-caked face hid her less-than-flattering appearance.

Mrph1 he/him from Mercia (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: This is not my beautiful wife!
he/him
#6863: Aug 9th 2023 at 8:13:03 AM

[up] I think that's because Barbie lampshades the Hollywood Homely thing, with Barbie supposedly looking miserable, broken and unattractive...

...and the narrator snarkily commenting that if they wanted that scene to work, they shouldn't have cast Margot Robbie.

Not convinced the example works even with that context, though. And shouldn't it be against the work containing the "...in hindsight" scene, not Barbie?

RobertTYL Since: Oct, 2019 Relationship Status: Holding out for a hero
#6864: Aug 9th 2023 at 8:22:23 PM

Recently added on YMMV.School Of Rock (third bullet point, there are two other items but they seem to be valid)

  • Harsher in Hindsight:
    • Kevin Clark (Freddie) tragically passed away on May 26, 2021 after being hit by a car while cycling at night. This makes the Freeze-Frame Bonus in the 'terminal scene, where Freddie is lying on the ground pretending to be dead, hard to watch. - Guy plays dead in a movie before dying 18 years later IRL. Mortality shoehorn, right? (esp. when the character didn't even die)

UFOYeah Since: Mar, 2022
#6865: Aug 9th 2023 at 10:07:56 PM

[up] Unless he was pretending to have been dead from a car accident, that's a classic mortality shoehorn and can be cut.

maxwellsilver Since: Sep, 2011
#6866: Aug 10th 2023 at 1:05:43 PM

From Cowboy Bebop

  • Harsher in Hindsight:
    • The episode "Wild Horses" has the space shuttle Columbia, now a long-disused antique, being brought out for one last mission. Cartoon Network actually pulled this one off the air for a while after the real Columbia was destroyed during re-entry. Even worse, the episode mentions the shuttle's heat-resistant tiles being damaged, which is what caused the real Columbia to be destroyed.
    • Cartoon Network pulled "Cowboy Funk" from its first run in September 2001 for its depiction of a pair of identical skyscrapers being destroyed by a terrorist.
    • "Waltz for Venus" was pulled due to the opening scene where terrorists taking over a commercial airliner.
    • The Movie didn't get an American release in theaters until two years later due to its terrorism theme and that the movie made its run in Japanese theaters just days before 9/11.

I zapped the last three because that's just Distanced from Current Events, and rewrote the Columbia example to this:

  • Harsher in Hindsight: In "Wild Horses" Doohan's secret project turns out to be the space shuttle Columbia, now a long-disused antique undergoing restoration, which he uses to rescue Spike when the Swordfish is disable in space, then has a Reentry Scare when the thermal tiles are damaged, but safely crash lands. In 2003, the real Columbia disintegrated on reentry, killing everyone on board, which was later revealed to be caused by damage to the thermal protection tiles.

maxwellsilver Since: Sep, 2011
#6867: Aug 10th 2023 at 1:21:17 PM

Also from Cowboy Bebop

VerySunshine Since: May, 2016 Relationship Status: Love blinded me (with science!)
#6868: Aug 10th 2023 at 6:24:02 PM

[up] In regards to your "not sure" responses:

  • I'm also unsure if the network example is valid.
  • The Teddy example seems to be completely invalid as written. The villain's costume looks nothing like the referenced character.
  • The third example appears to say they made a parody of a character, then had a crossover with the actual property. That seems weak.

WhirlRX Since: Jan, 2015
#6869: Aug 11th 2023 at 5:08:16 PM

Would this count as Harsher or a unfortunate coincidence for Fate/Grand Order.

  • This years summer event is set in Hawaii. Before the event could start, in went through an unexpected maintenance period. Turns out it was because there is a moment in which the entire area is on fire while a real life blaze was going on in Hawaii. They actually mentioned real life tragedy in a tweet.

Edited by WhirlRX on Aug 11th 2023 at 8:09:19 AM

bowserbros No longer active. from Elsewhere Since: May, 2014
bwburke94 I am mad scientist! It's so cool! from 1.048596% (Y2: Electric Boogaloo) Relationship Status: She does the things you do, but she is an IBM
I am mad scientist! It's so cool!
#6871: Aug 12th 2023 at 4:17:34 AM

"This year" violates Examples Are Not Recent.

2025: the year it all ends?
Ayumi-chan 3rd happiest man in Connecticut from Iacon City (Experienced Trainee) Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
3rd happiest man in Connecticut
#6872: Aug 12th 2023 at 6:25:57 AM

Bumping this

She/Her | Currently cleaning: N/A
bwburke94 I am mad scientist! It's so cool! from 1.048596% (Y2: Electric Boogaloo) Relationship Status: She does the things you do, but she is an IBM
I am mad scientist! It's so cool!
#6873: Aug 12th 2023 at 8:00:49 AM

[up] The second bullet point is definite myopia. Not sure on the first.

2025: the year it all ends?
sudrictoon Any pronouns from Sodor/Crystal Tokyo Since: Feb, 2021 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Any pronouns
#6874: Aug 12th 2023 at 7:41:36 PM

I apologize for bringing up that show, but a certain PBS cartoon got a movie recently, and then I realized in a fan group chat I'm in that two different episodes are harder to watch now because of what happens in the movie (proof):

  • "Jet Shrinks the Kids" was about Jet and his friends, including Sunspot, shrinking down to the size of mice. In the movie, Sunspot's allergy causes him to shrink at a rate of 5% an hour, to the point of him almost "shrinking away to nothing."
  • The educational topic of the episode "Detective Mindy" was black holes. In the movie, the cure to Sunspot's illness is on Mascarpone, a planet that can only be accessed beyond a black hole. The main characters almost get pulled inside it, but they survive. The end of "Detective Mindy" had an idiosyncratic Iris Out where it looked like a black hole sucking the scene up. Also, these lines (specifically the bolded parts).
    Sean: How black holes work has a lot to do with gravity. Stars collapse and become black holes. And the gravity inside of the black hole is so strong, nothing can get out of it. It can squish a star down to a tiny area. One single black hole could fit tons of stars into it, but really smushed up stars.
    Sydney: Wow, Sean. That's so cool! How did you learn all this?
    Sean: My mom taught me about them, and she said black holes are really far away, nowhere near our solar system.
    Sydney: Well, that's good.

^These are not actually what I want to put on the YMMV page, but just explanations.

I want to put them under Harsher in Hindsight, but what do you guys think?

Sinners are TRASH / And they are A**HOLES
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#6875: Aug 12th 2023 at 10:26:47 PM

I don't think the first one really counts, it's just two different uses of shrinking and it doesn't seem to make the first episode harsher.

I'm not sure about the second one. Does the movie involve the black hole getting closer to the solar system? If not (because then it would look like retroactive Dramatic Irony) I think it's similar to the first one, it's just a black hole being used in different contexts. "Detective Mindy" might count though, if the danger of being sucked into a black hole was later played seriously.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.

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