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Hindsight Cleanup

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The Hindsight tropes, Hilarious in Hindsight, Harsher in Hindsight, and Heartwarming in Hindsight, are among the most misused Audience Reaction tropes on this site. Many people don't understand that the tropes require more than just "This happened, so that happened", and end up adding examples which either lack connection or the substance that makes them funny/serious/not-so-funny/heartwarming. Some of them may be suited better for other tropes (ex: Life Imitates Art), while some may not belong on TV Tropes at all (such as ones involving politicians, due to Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment).

Please report any Hindsight example that you feel are questionable, and we'll analyze them to see if they are actually examples or not.

Remember that the Hindsight tropes are Audience Reactions. That means if an example under review discusses significant fan response pointing out the hindsight, the example can't be cut solely for being too tenuous for this thread.

    Common NOT in Hindsight examples 
  • Creator's character/portrayal dies in work and then creator dies in real life, unless their fictional death is closely similar to their real one (such as Billy Bob Joe portraying a character who dies from pancreatic cancer, then Billy Bob dies from pancreatic cancer himself)
  • Mundane word related to something terrible (such as "corona" or "Epstein") unless there's more to the connection (such as someone named "Corona" having the flu)
  • Creator appears in work then becomes more controversial later on.
  • A common event (such as a typical natural disaster) happens in work, then happens in real life (unless they are closely similar, such as the event happening to the same area in both reality and fiction around the same time) For once, not everything related to disease has to do with COVID-19, not everything related to racism and Police Brutality has to do with George Floyd and Black Lives Matter, and not everything related to sexual abuse has to do with #MeToo.
  • A common/generic concept was used in this work and then later reused in that work (too loose for a connection, unless the concept is so unique it's identified with the work)
  • Two actors appear together then do so in another work
  • Hindsight examples involving recent events, due to them often being shoehorns. Specifically:
    • COVID-19 examples, before 75% of the population has returned to normal
    • George Floyd/2020 Black Lives Matter examples, before protests have declined
  • Examples which fall guilty of Older Than They Think, such as "Make X Great Again" slogans. Aside from violating the ROCEJ, this slogan has been in use since the 1940s.
  • Characters using slurs which are treated as annoying at worst in the work, but is now harsher due to how severe the slur is made now. Discrimination has always existed with that slur. (May qualify for Values Dissonance if work is at least 20 years old.)

Note: As of January 2022, "Funny Aneurysm" Moment is no longer separate from Harsher in Hindsight.
  • The former redirects to the latter and all wicks to the former (with the exception of ones on archive pages and the YMMV Redirects index) must either be moved to the latter (if they're valid) or removed (if they're invalid).
  • The subpages for the former are still accessible from this page. After a subpage for "Funny Aneurysm" Moment has been completely cleaned up, turn it into a redirect to the Harsher in Hindsight subpage for the same medium to preserve inbounds.

Edited by Tabs on Jun 21st 2023 at 11:51:25 AM

AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#6676: May 29th 2023 at 11:12:33 AM

But if we added it then all others should as well. But meh, do as you wish, its not like you arent willing to put the effort so I guess I shouldnt oppose it.

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
STARCRUSHER99 The Moron from one of my unhealthy obsessions (Captain) Relationship Status: Showing feelings of an almost human nature
The Moron
#6677: May 29th 2023 at 11:27:33 AM

Hey, so I had a potential example I wanted to add regarding the EAS Scenarios series The Final Minutes. There's a video in that series called "Trumpocalypse", which basically posits that in 2018, Trump was impeached and removed from office, but he refused to accept that and basically kickstarts a riot that, among other things, kills several police officers and sees bombs placed all over the capital. The kicker is that the video was made in February of 2017, a bit less than four years before the riot on January 6, 2021. With that in mind, is this example okay? I both wanna make sure it's not misuse and that it handles the ROCEJ right.

  • Harsher in Hindsight: Trumpocalypse, made in 2017, has President Donald Trump refusing to accept that he's been removed from office. This kickstarts a riot spearheaded by the Citizen Militia that sees several police officers killed, kills the Vice President, and has bombs planted all over the capital. Following the real 2020 election, Trump similarly refused to accept his defeat and, on January 6, 2021, a mob of his supporters stormed the Capital Building; among the chaos, several police officers were killed, at least one person planted a pipe bomb that never went off, and a crowd carried a noose while chanting "hang Mike Pence".

What do we think?

TotemGenitor Bye Since: Apr, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
Bye
#6678: May 29th 2023 at 11:09:05 PM

Rally:

All the changes you proposed seems good to me

VampireBuddha Calendar enthusiast from Ireland (Wise, aged troper) Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Calendar enthusiast
#6679: May 30th 2023 at 5:00:34 AM

[up][up]To me that looks specific enough to count.

Ukrainian Red Cross
fragglelover Since: Jun, 2012
#6680: May 30th 2023 at 6:24:42 AM

This is on HarsherInHindsight.Rugrats:

  • In "A Visit From Lipschitz", Didi decides that it is perfectly reasonable to leave Dr. Lipschitz, a man she just met all alone in her house, because he is famous; unknowingly leaving Tommy and Chuckie alone with a complete stranger.note  Considering the horrible stories of pedophiles and celebrities with dark truths about them that fill our world today, the idea of leaving a baby alone with the doctor is horrifying; it's made even worse by the fact that he, unwittingly, strips naked in front of them to take a bubble bath. There's a Creepypasta that goes into detail about an earlier draft of this episode, which dives into the dangers of child predators.note 

First off, I'm pretty sure that concerns about famous people not being as nice as they appear to be were around in the 90s. Second, even if this does count, do we really need to discuss a creepypasta about it on this page (not that there aren't places on the site to discuss it, but I'm not sure that a hindsight page for the show it's based on is the place).

AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#6681: May 30th 2023 at 6:28:28 AM

Also the entry contradicts itself. If she was unaware she left Tommy and Chuckie with him then she DIDNT think it was "perfectly fine".

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#6682: May 30th 2023 at 8:26:13 PM

Do people think pedophilia and pedophile-related panic didn't exist in the 1990s? Did they never hear of that whole "Satanic Panic" thing? Or how common Stranger Danger aesops were in the 80s and 90s?

Also aren't there cases where a doctor can be with an infant alone (like, for example, right after birth) and it's not inherently creepy because it's their goddamn job? This just gives me major ick, like someone thinks any adult alone with a child is definitely gonna assault them. Like I get the whole "leaving a kid in the house with a stranger "thing as Fridge Horror but that's not what the entry is suggesting, it's acting like this is the default perception we have of any adult who's around a kid.

Sounds more like a Memetic Molester entry, at most. And the creepypasta is 5 years old with zero comments, so I'm wondering if the author (or one of their friends) wrote this entry to promote it and this isn't actually a mainstream opinion.

Edited by mightymewtron on May 30th 2023 at 11:27:29 AM

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
VampireBuddha Calendar enthusiast from Ireland (Wise, aged troper) Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Calendar enthusiast
#6683: May 31st 2023 at 5:09:50 AM

I remember the 90s. People were terrified of paedophiles back then; it is for this reason that it was drilled into us that you don't talk to strangers and you don't reveal any identifiable information on the Internet.

Also, I checked the fan wiki and Dr. Lipschitz is a qualified child psychologist. Taking care of children is his job, and since he's certified, we can infer he was at least able to pass a paedophile screen.

I agree with mightymewtron, that entry is absurd and should be cut.

Ukrainian Red Cross
fragglelover Since: Jun, 2012
#6684: May 31st 2023 at 5:31:24 AM

Alright, it's been removed with a link to this thread.

Ayumi-chan 3rd happiest man in Connecticut from Iacon City (Experienced Trainee) Relationship Status: I like big bots and I can not lie
3rd happiest man in Connecticut
#6685: May 31st 2023 at 6:10:58 AM

Found this entry on YMMV.The Demon Girl Next Door which is plain Fan Myopia

  • Hilarious in Hindsight: The English dub cast for the Yoshida family are all veterans from Noir, so it's especially funny when Seiko (Whose English v.a. played Mireille) gives Yuko a fork as a weapon (since Monica Rial's character saved her with a fork in the other series).

She/Her | Currently cleaning: N/A
AegisP Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man Since: Oct, 2014 Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
Kindhearted SSSSSNAKE Man
#6686: May 31st 2023 at 6:39:11 AM

Yeah no. That entry should go.

As long as this flower is in my heart. My Strength will flow without end.
sudrictoon Any pronouns from Sodor/Crystal Tokyo Since: Feb, 2021 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Any pronouns
#6687: May 31st 2023 at 7:36:10 AM

On YMMV.Fruits Basket:

Most of this is actor-related Fan Myopia. Should I delete it?

Also, the linked image in the Momji/Honey section calls them "loli-Shota characters." To be fair, Honey is actually called a "loli-boy" in-universe in Ouran (not because he's "feminine," but because he's 17 and looks like he's 5) I only just started watching Fruits Basket and Momji has not shown up yet, so I don't know if he's actually called a "loli" within the show. The point I wanna make is that calling any character a "loli" or a "shota" is definitely not kosher.

Edit: not only is the link to the wrongly colored image of Tohru dead, but Evangelion came out before Fruba.

Edited by sudrictoon on May 31st 2023 at 10:37:32 AM

Sinners are TRASH / And they are A**HOLES
AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#6688: May 31st 2023 at 9:27:18 AM

The Tohru x Akito entry is the only one I see having any legs. Feel free to cut the rest.

sudrictoon Any pronouns from Sodor/Crystal Tokyo Since: Feb, 2021 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
Any pronouns
#6689: May 31st 2023 at 10:18:11 AM

Ok

Sinners are TRASH / And they are A**HOLES
MrMediaGuy2 Since: Jun, 2015
#6690: May 31st 2023 at 6:40:42 PM

From The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy.

  • Harsher in Hindsight:
    • The season 1 episode "Get Out of My Head", specifically the scene where Billy [in Mandy's body] tries to go in the male then female bathroom, but feels out of place in both of them, while played for laughs back in 2001, can be uncomfortable to watch now in light of cultural controversies regarding transgender people and their bathroom of choice.
    • Similarly in “Wishbones”, Sperg wishes to become a woman so he can get into the girls’ bathroom, but gets mocked by the girls there for his appearance can be uncomfortable due to the parallels of that and transphobia.
    • In "Billy and Mandy Save Christmas", Billy blames the economy for the Endsville Mall burning down on Christmas Eve. A year after the special's broadcast saw the start of the Great Recession in the US; which not only left money tight during the holidays, but also left numerous malls across the country either bankrupt or struggling to keep even half of its stores open.
    • The name of Sperg, the school bully, later became derogatory internet slang for people with autism or Asperger's. This is especially a case of this trope now that Maxwell Atoms is known to have Asperger's himself.

Some of these feel off to me (namely the bathroom and Sperg ones), but I just want to check with this thread what they think.

TantaMonty Since: Aug, 2017
#6691: May 31st 2023 at 6:53:07 PM

[up]

  • That's Values Dissonance.
  • Same as above, transphobia existed before this show.
  • Cut. In the show, the mall is destroyed because a crowd of idiots starts a riot after finding out that the mall Santa isn't the genuine article. Comparing that to the Great Recession is just absurd.
  • I think it may be another case of Values Dissonance.

Edited by TantaMonty on May 31st 2023 at 6:57:33 AM

bowserbros No longer active. from Elsewhere Since: May, 2014
No longer active.
#6692: May 31st 2023 at 7:12:10 PM

Values Dissonance requires a twenty-year waiting period for time-based examples, and since Sperg was a recurring character on the show, we'd probably start the clock at his last appearance in the 2008 special "Underfist".

Of note is that Atoms stated that Sperg was named after a childhood friend of one of the writers (said friend's last name was Spergel), so that should help with contextualizing things.

Edited by bowserbros on May 31st 2023 at 7:13:55 AM

Be kind.
ElBuenCuate Since: Oct, 2010
#6693: Jun 1st 2023 at 11:24:17 PM

So this example in Diagnosis Murder S 7 E 1 The Roast was already brought up in this thread here and it seemed it was agreed it was misuse. Yet, the page is still there. And since the history shows the example was added after the discussion, I guess it was recreated. In any case, should it be deleted again?

RandomTroper123 She / Her from I'll let you guess... (Not-So-Newbie) Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
She / Her
#6694: Jun 2nd 2023 at 3:06:51 PM

[up]I think it can be sent to the Cut List again.

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#6695: Jun 3rd 2023 at 8:12:56 PM

[up][up][up] Values Dissonance should count back from the episode in which the joke was said, but "Wishbones" aired in 2005 so it's not ineligible anyway.

(Though again, given the very rapid changes in how we treat gender and sexuality in the past decade alone, this restriction feels like it could be loosened someday.)

I think Sperg's name could be something but may be closer to Have a Gay Old Time (as a non-fan it was definitely a bit jarring when I heard his name). I can actually see value in the mall one as it could retroactively be seen as a joke about the recession to those who don't know the specific date, but it might've just worked in context anyway.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#6696: Jun 4th 2023 at 1:17:24 AM

  • Harsher in Hindsight:
    • In the fic, Twilight's secret Mad Scientist Laboratory is reached by a hidden, downward spiraling staircase, and her magic's color begins to progressively darken as she goes deeper into her Sanity Slippage. Fast forward to the Season 3 premiere, and Twilight's magic changes from its normal magenta to black as she uses dark magic to find a hidden downward spiraling staircase.
    • Also, the second chapter of the fic more-or-less begins with Rainbow trapped in Twilight's lab, with a device on her head, asking to be let go, and Twilight refusing. Fast forward to Double Rainboom...

Both from YMMV.Pages Of Harmony. I'm not sure what makes either of these examples "harsher", one is a short lived moment from the show happening in a much different context... and the other is an MLP comedy fan animation, which features Twilight hooking Rainbow up to a bunch of machines to test the effects of the potion — notably in a very cartoony way akin to what happens in the actual cartoon. So... yeah I'm a bit confused. Did whoever write this mean Hilarious in Hindsight?

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
dsneybuf (Not-So-Newbie)
#6697: Jun 4th 2023 at 2:44:39 PM

Proposing a new entry for the Harsher in Hindsight section of YMMV.The Editing Room:

  • In Beauty And The Beast, Jesse Corti boasts that the line "We don't like what we don't understand, in fact it scares us" sounds "pretty woke for 1850's France." Nowadays the definition of "woke" has become so muddied since 2017 (the year of the script's publication), that some treat it with the sentiments described in the lyrics.

Edited by dsneybuf on Jun 4th 2023 at 4:52:10 AM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#6698: Jun 4th 2023 at 3:20:13 PM

I'm... kinda confused at what you're getting there. Was he joking? If not, all this example is saying is that something called "woke" remains being thought of as "woke", whether or not that's a positive thing

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
dsneybuf (Not-So-Newbie)
#6699: Jun 4th 2023 at 4:49:41 PM

I found it ironic that the script would treat "woke" as something to be proud of, while nowadays it doesn't seem like that.

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#6700: Jun 4th 2023 at 4:52:11 PM

I mean, that sounds very sarcastic since the line is acknowledging the fact that the townspeople are about to kill the Beast simply because they don't understand him. There's nothing "woke" about that unless you use it in a very cynical way (essentially implying that liberals also follow this mentality). There's no way that he used "woke" in a positive way unless he straight up didn't understand the quote.

Edited by WarJay77 on Jun 4th 2023 at 7:52:34 AM

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall

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