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Hindsight Cleanup

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The Hindsight tropes, Hilarious in Hindsight, Harsher in Hindsight, and Heartwarming in Hindsight, are among the most misused Audience Reaction tropes on this site. Many people don't understand that the tropes require more than just "This happened, so that happened", and end up adding examples which either lack connection or the substance that makes them funny/serious/not-so-funny/heartwarming. Some of them may be suited better for other tropes (ex: Life Imitates Art), while some may not belong on TV Tropes at all (such as ones involving politicians, due to Rule of Cautious Editing Judgment).

Please report any Hindsight example that you feel are questionable, and we'll analyze them to see if they are actually examples or not.

Remember that the Hindsight tropes are Audience Reactions. That means if an example under review discusses significant fan response pointing out the hindsight, the example can't be cut solely for being too tenuous for this thread.

    Common NOT in Hindsight examples 
  • Creator's character/portrayal dies in work and then creator dies in real life, unless their fictional death is closely similar to their real one (such as Billy Bob Joe portraying a character who dies from pancreatic cancer, then Billy Bob dies from pancreatic cancer himself)
  • Mundane word related to something terrible (such as "corona" or "Epstein") unless there's more to the connection (such as someone named "Corona" having the flu)
  • Creator appears in work then becomes more controversial later on.
  • A common event (such as a typical natural disaster) happens in work, then happens in real life (unless they are closely similar, such as the event happening to the same area in both reality and fiction around the same time) For once, not everything related to disease has to do with COVID-19, not everything related to racism and Police Brutality has to do with George Floyd and Black Lives Matter, and not everything related to sexual abuse has to do with #MeToo.
  • A common/generic concept was used in this work and then later reused in that work (too loose for a connection, unless the concept is so unique it's identified with the work)
  • Two actors appear together then do so in another work
  • Hindsight examples involving recent events, due to them often being shoehorns. Specifically:
    • COVID-19 examples, before 75% of the population has returned to normal
    • George Floyd/2020 Black Lives Matter examples, before protests have declined
  • Examples which fall guilty of Older Than They Think, such as "Make X Great Again" slogans. Aside from violating the ROCEJ, this slogan has been in use since the 1940s.
  • Characters using slurs which are treated as annoying at worst in the work, but is now harsher due to how severe the slur is made now. Discrimination has always existed with that slur. (May qualify for Values Dissonance if work is at least 20 years old.)

Note: As of January 2022, "Funny Aneurysm" Moment is no longer separate from Harsher in Hindsight.
  • The former redirects to the latter and all wicks to the former (with the exception of ones on archive pages and the YMMV Redirects index) must either be moved to the latter (if they're valid) or removed (if they're invalid).
  • The subpages for the former are still accessible from this page. After a subpage for "Funny Aneurysm" Moment has been completely cleaned up, turn it into a redirect to the Harsher in Hindsight subpage for the same medium to preserve inbounds.

Edited by Tabs on Jun 21st 2023 at 11:51:25 AM

Albert3105 Since: Jun, 2013
#5176: Feb 22nd 2022 at 7:42:07 PM

[tup] Keep Elsa. Two characters with similar appearances named Elsa poignantly associated with near-identical lines is very uncanny, and many others have joked about this elsewhere.

MatthewLMayfield from wherever he damn well pleases (Captain) Relationship Status: I wanna know what love is
#5177: Feb 23rd 2022 at 8:15:26 PM

One that's an easy cut. From Mister Ed

...because an actor being skilled at foreign accents is funny for some reason. I kind of cringed upon seeing that one

bwburke94 I am mad scientist! It's so cool! from 1.048596% (Y2: Electric Boogaloo) Relationship Status: She does the things you do, but she is an IBM
I am mad scientist! It's so cool!
#5178: Feb 23rd 2022 at 8:42:36 PM

♫ Misuse, woo-oo! Every day they're out there adding misuse! ♫

Edited by bwburke94 on Feb 23rd 2022 at 11:43:17 AM

2025: the year it all ends?
Psychopompos007 (Long Runner) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#5179: Feb 24th 2022 at 10:12:15 AM

I'm not sure where I should post this suggestion, but it's related to the Harsher in Hindsight page, so...

The page intro contains the following warning:

"Note: Examples can only be added once the event that makes it harsher has ended. In particular, anything related to a widespread disease, basic hygiene, hoarding of any kind, or something similar to social distancing doesn't inherently mean that there's a connection to the COVID-19 Pandemic. Please don't add examples of this nature."

I guess it means Hindsight entries related to the current Russia-Ukraine war are off-limit too for the moment, for the same reason. Should we add another warning in the same section?

Edited by Psychopompos007 on Feb 24th 2022 at 7:18:40 PM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#5180: Feb 24th 2022 at 10:13:34 AM

Yes, but only if we actually see a large amount of people making such edits first to justify it.

delayedboom she/her Since: Sep, 2021 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
she/her
#5181: Feb 24th 2022 at 6:47:12 PM

Is this entry in YMMV.Mobile Suit Gundam too knee-jerk?

  • Harsher in Hindsight: A significant arc is the Federation trying to drive out the Zeon after they set up a major military base in Odessa, Ukraine. A number of plot points during this arc are still relevant today, but things became much more poignant when the GundamInfo YouTube channel posted the Soldiers of Sorrow movie, which covers that arc, mere hours after Russia invaded Ukraine in February 2022.

We don't sweep with a broom, no~
bwburke94 I am mad scientist! It's so cool! from 1.048596% (Y2: Electric Boogaloo) Relationship Status: She does the things you do, but she is an IBM
I am mad scientist! It's so cool!
#5182: Feb 24th 2022 at 7:17:28 PM

[up] Knee-jerk and released during the event in question. Whack it.

2025: the year it all ends?
Psychopompos007 (Long Runner) Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
#5183: Feb 25th 2022 at 2:17:53 AM

I think the YMMV page for the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. should be closely monitored for the time the conflict is off-limits for Hindsight reactions. In the first game, the penultimate level is set around the Chernobyl nuclear power plant, which has been turned into a warzone involving the Ukrainian army. The real life invasion of Ukraine saw the Russian and Ukrainian armies on the site for the control of Chernobyl. (this event and the similarity with the game is the very reason I wrote a post here yesterday)

Edited by Psychopompos007 on Feb 25th 2022 at 5:17:32 PM

Dramatic Since: Jun, 2012
#5184: Feb 25th 2022 at 3:42:03 PM

Thoughts on The Weeknd:

  • Harsher in Hindsight: His song "Blinding Lights" features the line "I look around and Sin City's cold and empty". Just four months after its release, Las Vegas, along with the rest of Nevada, would be locked down due to the COVID-19 Pandemic.

This one's a bit arguable, since "Blinding Lights" very much got big in-part due to the pandemic and this lyric can be viewed through that lens, but in-context the line's referring to the shallowness of nightlife allowing for more anonymity and self-expression without fear of consequences, not that the city is literally empty. So idk.

ReynTime250 Since: Jan, 2015 Relationship Status: You cannot grasp the true form
#5185: Feb 25th 2022 at 5:56:41 PM

Can anyone check on these examples on Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance. I want to know if I've gotten this right.

  • Harsher in Hindsight: Back in 2013, Armstrong's motive rant comes off as a little funny and extreme especially if you were young. ESPECIALLY since this was Japan's view of America technically. Nowadays, the corruption of the media and manipulations of the social media has gotten worse to the point where Americans trust the media and big corporations the least of 46 free countries. Certain media outlets and social media platforms have essentially become echo chambers and turned America into a hotbed of poorly educated political fanatics. To which side the scales are "rebalanced", is better left not argued. ROCEJ
  • Hilarious in Hindsight:
    • Metal Gear EXCELSUS has many legs and two big, almost pincer-like blades. "Crab battle" will be going through your head the whole time. This meme is 15 years old, far older then MGRR. Not an example
    • Late in the main game, Raiden steals a motorcycle as transport and leaves an apology inscription on the ground. The Jetstream Sam DLC reveals that it was Sam's motorcycle all along. This was intentional from the developers
    • Monsoon and Armstrong talk about the memes and how they'll be remembered because of said memes. Boy, are they right. Too loose of a connection
    • A year after this game's release, the video game adaptation of The LEGO Movie also had the Big Bad pilot a giant mechanical insect/arachnid, which you also finish off with its own severed arms. Fan Myopia
    • Dian from Jewelpet has quite a bit in common with Senator Armstrong, the true Big Bad of this game: Both are Well-Intentioned Extremists who want to give freedom to their people (Jewelpets in Dian's case), both are hammy, both are friendly to the main character, both have played ball-related sports (basketball and football, respectively), both are so tough that only specific weapons can do any lasting damage (Wave-Motion Guns and Sam's sword, respectively), both fight with Good Old Fisticuffs and explosive energy attacks, both are Genius Bruisers with Super-Strength, both have red eyes (in the former's case, when he's in his human and Dark Dian forms), and both eventually turn black while powered up. A fan saw said similarities and made a fanvid of Dian as Armstrong. I think this is someone shoehorning Expy into this when it doesn't even fit as Expy. What?
    • In general, the climax with Senator Armstrong is hilarious in light of the 2016 American Presidential election, and you can have a lot of fun drawing comparisons between Armstrong's Motive Rant and a certain U.S. president. ROCEJ and Older than You Think
    Senator Armstrong: "...they'll make America Great Again."

TantaMonty Since: Aug, 2017
#5186: Feb 25th 2022 at 6:16:08 PM

[up] I brought those up before and raised very similar points, but got no answers. If no one objects, I think it should be safe to cut.

Dramatic Since: Jun, 2012
#5187: Feb 26th 2022 at 8:42:34 AM

In regards to Metal Gear Rising:

  • The Harsher entry is ROCEJ, and the bit about 'America [becoming] a hotbed of poorly educated political fanatics' immediately rings alarm bells; how can everyone simultaneously be poorly educated and political fanatics? People develop more hardcore political opinions because they are better informed about stuff one way or another; it's people who avoid politics who tend to be more moderate.
  • The entry about memes I actually think can stay; the in-game discussions about memes are memetic in their own right.

TantaMonty Since: Aug, 2017
#5188: Feb 26th 2022 at 11:24:27 AM

Since the three of us are in agreement, I went ahead and deleted the examples. The one about memes is still up, as requested.

magnumtropus Since: Aug, 2020
#5189: Feb 27th 2022 at 6:13:48 AM

The Good Place

  • In "Jeremy Bearimy", Jason comments that he'd had a new flu virus named after him after he kissed a bat. This episode aired just over a year before the COVID-19 pandemic began.

Covid shoehorn. Removal pending

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#5190: Feb 27th 2022 at 11:05:06 AM

I feel like I've seen jokes about that but COVID is not the only disease to be started by an animal (and even then, the bat theory has come into question). If COVID was named something similar to Jason Mendoza then maybe it would count.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
Vilui Since: May, 2009
#5191: Feb 27th 2022 at 12:43:01 PM

HarsherInHindsight.Literature opens with an entry about 1984 that is so generally and vaguely worded that I wonder if anything can be salvaged from it at all. Cut the whole thing?

(...uh, not sure how to directly link to the page)

[down] (thanks)

Edited by Vilui on Feb 27th 2022 at 9:15:06 AM

bwburke94 I am mad scientist! It's so cool! from 1.048596% (Y2: Electric Boogaloo) Relationship Status: She does the things you do, but she is an IBM
I am mad scientist! It's so cool!
#5192: Feb 27th 2022 at 12:44:47 PM

[up] HarsherInHindsight.{{Literature}}

2025: the year it all ends?
Wafer Troy Verde from the Banjo-Tooie world, meditating (Life not ruined yet) Relationship Status: Non-Canon
Troy Verde
#5194: Feb 27th 2022 at 3:39:26 PM

The only entry for YMMV.Multidimensional Dark Masters scares me:

Honestly I think the Tokimeki PokéLive! and TwinBee pages in general need a look. I've already taken its empty Ho Yay page to the Cut List and from what I've seen the other entries have an... off feeling about them that I can't describe.

Guys how cool would it be if Super Megaforce had a green ranger...
Nen_desharu Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire from Greater Smash Bros. Universe or Toronto Since: Aug, 2020 Relationship Status: Who needs love when you have waffles?
Nintendo Fanatic Extraordinaire
#5195: Feb 27th 2022 at 6:35:54 PM

[up]February 2020 is in the past as well.

Kirby is awesome.
Dramatic Since: Jun, 2012
#5196: Feb 28th 2022 at 2:19:27 PM

I suspected Command & Conquer: Generals would be a goldmine of geopolitical shoehorning:

  • Harsher in Hindsight:
    • The nuclear bomb blowing up in front of the Forbidden City in the intro? In October 2013 Muslim Uighur separatists attempted to detonate a car bomb in front of the Forbidden City. The bomb didn't explode, but the vehicle caught fire.
This one could stay; both involve car bombings in the same general location.
These ISIS hindsight examples are really weird in how they pretend Middle Eastern insurgents didn't exist beforehand. Does "Taliban" not ring a bell?
  • The GLA origin, traced to regions as far reaching as Kazakhstan and "Aldastan" (The game's version of Tajikistan) draws parallels to Xinjiang separatist groups terrorizing China (with the worst attack being the 2014 Kunming Knife attack), which the Chinese government worked so hard to stamp out. Unlike the game however, it never erupt into a full-blown war, and the US is not on the Chinese side due to allegations of human rights violations against Chinese government and military heavy-handed efforts to stamp out extremism.
The Xinjiang conflict has been a thing since the 1930's, and the 1990's saw multiple noteworthy terrorist attacks linked to the conflict. It's fair to say the game was inspired to some extent by the region's real-world tensions, and they didn't just accidentally predict it.
  • The end of the Zero Hour GLA campaign sees the U.S. dealt a humiliating defeat by the resurgent GLA and withdraws its troops from Europe. Come 2021, and that's eerily similar to the botched U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan and the subsequent takeover of the country by the resurgent Taliban, complete with US military hardware falling into terrorist hands note .
This is another "maybe"; though I'm not 100% convinced the circumstances line up, I'm open to others suggesting otherwise.
  • The events in GLA Mission 3 about riots in Astana might be too similar to actual riots in Kazakhstan in 2022.
I think there needs to be a stronger connection than just "this specific country had riots".
  • Heartwarming in Hindsight: The ending of Chinese campaign in Zero Hour might touch the heart of Chinese nationalists not offended enough to play this game due to how the in-game Chinese managed to won the hearts of EU, with the real-life China as of 2015 shifting their international relations policy into a pro-active one (though not in a very good terms with the real-life G7).
???
  • Hilarious in Hindsight: Let us count the ways, shall we?
    • When the first game came out it was criticized for being more like a Blizzard RTS game than Command & Conquer. The game's lead designer Dustin Browder would go on to become the lead designer for StarCraft II.
I'm sure having this game on his CV would've directly helped him land the StarCraft II job, so I don't think it's Hindsight.
  • Generals purports to take place in the 2020s, featuring a number of pricey high-end American units that were either in development, on the cusp of deployment, or already deployed. Fast forward a few years, and a number of them have been cancelled due to budgetary concerns (among other things).
The actual page lists several specific examples that I'll cut here for brevity. I think this could count, though I would be weary about making sure it's not just an intentional case of I Want My Jetpack.
  • Generals also depicted the Chinese air force of the 2020s as primarily using Mikoyan-Gurevich fighters—no model name given, but very clearly based on the MiG MFI, 1.44, and 1.42 series. This series was developed as a response to America's Advanced Tactical Fighter program (which resulted in the F-22), but didn't make a maiden flight until 2000 due to lack of funding for almost a decade—and by then the project had already been cancelled, since 1997. However ...
    • ... As of 2012, China is working on its own domestic answer to the American F-22 and Russian PAK FA: the Chengdu J-20. The J-20 officially entered service with the PLA Air Force in March 2017, about a decade before the time period when Generals is supposed to happen. Experts have noticed the similarity in design between the J-20 and the MiG 1.44. Maybe China's leaders really have been playing Generals despite the ban!
China was already mostly using Russian-sourced aircraft when the game released, so both them using Russian fighter jets in-game and their future real-world fighter jets being inspired by Russian designs both make sense and aren't Hindsight.

Edited by Dramatic on Feb 28th 2022 at 2:21:00 AM

AlleyOop Since: Oct, 2010
#5197: Mar 1st 2022 at 12:15:49 AM

From Xenoblade Chronicles 2:

I already deleted it for being on the wrong game, but the troper still wants to add it to SMTIVA, whereas I think the entry is a weak example for Actor Garbage (and have not seen much that much noting of the similarities in either fandom personally).

Edited by AlleyOop on Mar 1st 2022 at 3:16:19 PM

maxwellsilver Since: Sep, 2011
#5198: Mar 1st 2022 at 7:06:38 AM

Seinfeld

  • Harsher in Hindsight:
    • In "The Puerto Rican Day", Kramer accidentally burns the Puerto Rican flag with some sparklers, and when a mob of parade attendees attack Jerry's car, Kramer remarks, "It's like this every day in Puerto Rico!" NBC ended up having to apologize for the episode's poor taste and it was left off of syndication packages for several years. It's even more uncomfortable to look at now since Kramer's actor Michael Richards went on a racist tirade against several hecklers at a stand-up routine in 2006. Not sure. It was controversial enough at the time to be a Banned Episode until 2002
    • "The Postponement" and "The Maestro" are in part about Kramer suing Java World for them serving him hot coffee which he poured on himself, causing a burn. They were a parody of the infamous Liebeck v. McDonald's Restaurants hot coffee case, at the time widely considered a Frivolous Lawsuit. However, this understanding was, as reported by The New York Times in 2010, the result of severe misreporting by the media, stoked by McDonald's and others interested in severely weakening plaintiff's rights, that made Stella Liebeck into someone who wanted to shake-down a successful, multi-million dollar company by pouring hot coffee in herself, in full knowledge of the consequences, instead of the woman who suffered for life because of severe, third-degree injuries to her groins and thighs due to McDonald's repeatedly-comdemned-in-court business decision to overheat the coffee without so much as a danger sign warning her about the fact.note  Sounds like Dated History and Convicted by Public Opinion
    • "The Stranded" has a line where Elaine mocks a woman who lost her fiancé at a party by telling her "maybe the dingo ate your baby" in a fake Australian accent. This was a reference to the the 1988 Australian film Evil Angels (also known as A Cry In The Dark), based on the true story of baby Azaria Chamberlain, where her parents were accused of killing Azaria but maintained that a dingo ate her. In 2012 a coroner's inquest conclusively proved that, in fact, a dingo ate Azaria Chamberlain. Though given that the evidence that exonerated them had been found in 1986, the line really wasn't any less harsh at the time. Sounds like Dated History and Convicted by Public Opinion
    • The ending of "The Chicken Roaster" where the Kenny Rogers Roasters branch is shut down, leading to a depressed Kramer (who became addicted to the chain's food) putting up a "Kenny Come Back" banner, became this after the chain closed it's last stand-alone North American location in 2011. Doesn't sound very harsh
    • "The Andrea Doria" has two, both related to the COVID-19 Pandemic:
      • The first was when Kramer started using dog medicine for his cough and behaved himself like one, after many people started using the horse dewormer ivermectin to treat Covid (and die from it); This seems like ROCEJ
      • The second was the episode joking about its namesake, the SS Andrea Doria, which sunk in 1956 by the coast of Nantucket, after many people started getting trapped in cruise ships due to Covid outbreaks. Although it wasn't less harsh back then since the series was popular at the same time as Titanic (which the episode was trying to lampoon more than anything). Because a ship sinking and killing people is the same as not being able to land due to quarantine (also, nice chained Sink Hole)
    • Another one due to the COVID-19 Pandemic, the episode "The Junk Mail" was at the time lampooning what seemed to be the looming death of the postal service due the emergence of technologies like e-mail. Indeed, even this very site (see below) has identified this as being an Unintentional Period Piece. However, when Amazon and other online retailers became more and more normalized parcel deliveries increased so much the USPS added Sundays (internally called "Amazon Sundays") to deliver packages to customers when it had traditionally been a day off. When the pandemic hit, however, needs for parcel deliveries as people refuse to go to store increased so much that all mail delivery services were woefully unstaffed and underfunded to deal with the increases with 12+ hour days becoming the norm. Or to quote Newman... So is it harsher or not? This entry seems to flip between the two. Also, the Sunday part makes Jerry delivering mail on Sunday ("Oops!") funnier (when he tried helping Newman perform well enough to get transferred to Hawai'i)
    Newman: "The mail never stops!"

mightymewtron Word Up from New New York Since: Oct, 2012 Relationship Status: THIS CONCEPT OF 'WUV' CONFUSES AND INFURIATES US!
Word Up
#5199: Mar 1st 2022 at 6:26:17 PM

I think the racist Kramer one is valid. It was controversial before, yes, but now it has an extra meta reason to be cringeworthy.

I do some cleanup and then I enjoy shows you probably think are cringe.
magnumtropus Since: Aug, 2020
#5200: Mar 1st 2022 at 7:36:26 PM

[tup] to your points. Cut as required


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