TRS Broadcasting Issue

So, it's a common knowledge that TRS (and for that matter, IP and the project threads) don't get as much attention as the rest of the forums. This creates the problems of big decisions being made by few, and then those decisions causing controversy with people who disagree, and weren't involved in the discussion.

The issue is that, while the option to check out these threads is always available to someone, most people are interested in specific tropes, and would only come if they knew that a certain trope was under discussion. And these things need to be broadcast better, because we need more voices in these areas of the site, and more hands to help with the actual cleanup.

What do?

And obviously despite the title this extends to IP and Cleanup threads too.

Edited by WarJay77 on Feb 2nd 2020 at 10:09:06 AM

Well for a long time, there was a big banner on the trope page that contained the TRS link to it's thread.

It doesn't now (I think it's been like that for a year or two?). The banner only shows up when you go to the discussion page and we all know barely anyone goes there.

I dunno what happened but I think a site update borked it and it was never fixed since.

Edited by MacronNotes on Feb 2nd 2020 at 10:13:37 AM

Moderators could add bulletins. That may be helpful, at least for TRS decisions.

The issue is, that's only helpful after the decision has been made. At that point, it's too late for people to join in if they disagree.

Well...there's a limit on how much text can be up in the sidebar of the bulletin, but it's possible to post something like

Clicking into it to view bulletin in full, could further inform and link to the outstanding TRS topics. How to determine those topics and maintain them fairly is a different question.

I'd like that if it's possible. And, like you said, we'd need some standard of what threads would need a spot on the list.

In complete candor, I've never been a frequenter of TRS. Those with open crowners, probably?

Sounds like a good idea to me. Then again, I never really participated in TRS discussions (though I'm planning to be more involved).

Possibly, but there are others that need a lot of discussion and voices, rather than a lot of voters. Our Ho Yay thread, for instance.

Also, we need a way of getting people to actually help with the cleanup, too. Getting voices is great and all, but it'd be even better if we could get those people to stick around and help with clearing wicks or working on sandboxes. I just don't know how it's possible- even the people who frequent the forum don't seem as interested in actually doing gruntwork (which is why there are so many threads stuck in limbo).

Perhaps the initial text for such bulletins can be something like "Heroic Albino TRS notice" or something, with the full text explaining things.

I want the old TRS banners back but I don't know if it mess with code to fix them or not.

I would advise focusing this thread on what can be accomplished without admin development.

Oh ok.

What about a TRS show case on the main page with the lastest threads?

The bulletin is definitely a good idea, maybe it can do what Brain suggested and mention threads on the TRS, and then explain the full situation in detail.

At the very least, this would make it impossible for people to claim they weren't told beforehand.

What about posting commented-out notes on threads under discussion, to let editors know there's a TRS discussion?

On pages under discussion, right? If so, I think that would be a solid idea.

Yes, I meant pages.

I wouldn't mind making such discussions visible to all readers, since not everyone will be inclined to edit the page. It works for The Other Wiki.

True; I mean, that's what the banners did. If we can't get those back, making our own could suffice.

In lieu of the return of the banners, we could at least manually post links to the thread on the trope's discussion page.

Links are already automatically posted on discussion pages. It's just that discussion pages aren't used ever.

Edited by WarJay77 on Feb 2nd 2020 at 12:22:07 PM

That feature disappeared recently. But fair point about discussion pages.

I suppose we could also post to ATT whenever a trope with a certain number of wicks (idk how many) gets a page action crowner? That might draw some more people in for the more impactful threads.

I assume that there may also be tropers who just don't like the TRS process itself/what it leads to. I personally aren't sure if I would be able to handle a few-pages-long discussion with stubborn people (from what I can tell, those happen), or want to help delete tropes. Some tropes that are cut I enjoyed reading, despite whatever problems they may have, or don't think those problems bother me, but of course, that isn't an argument for keeping.

That said, I am more active in IP, probably because it doesn't rely on deletionism nearly as much and discussions are more simplified. There are things that still discourage me from using that, like people preferring a different image suggestion without a reason or really wanting to use an image from something that already has a crapton of them on other pages, not letting a less popular work shine, but those aren't quite enough.

Really, I could probably help TRS if I wanted to as I occasionally do wick cleanups (like with the VideoGame.Leisure Suit Larry split or VideoGame.Fire Emblem Tellius wicks lately), but I don't feel that I want to help a process that does stuff to pages that I don't like.

Edited by Piterpicher on Feb 2nd 2020 at 6:36:26 PM

You're right; I'm sure there are a lot of people who just disagree with what TRS does.

But... those issues can't be fixed by whining about the decisions after-the-fact. (Not saying that's something you do of course, speaking generally here.) The only way to fix these issues, whether they're real or percieved, is by being involved and lending your voice and seeing if you can sway people. If you think deletionism is a problem, for example, wouldn't a more helpful solution be to try and get some discussion going and see if there's another way to salvage the page, rather than just resign to the fact that these things will happen?

Now me, personally, I don't have any strong feelings over whether or not a page gets cut, because if a page has something salvageable, we usually try and salvage it. The pages we've cut are the ones that are just failing to be a trope at all, or need so much work it's better just starting from scratch, or need to just be merged. We cut the stuff that isn't aiding the wiki in any substantial way, and of course this is a subjective thing, but if someone can make a good case for not cutting things, I'll listen and vote for their solution instead.

The point is, if people dislike the TRS culture that much, the only way to fix it is to get involved and actually try and change things from the inside. Not interacting with the thread just allows these issues to continue being issues.

...Also, yeah, I still really want to come up with some miracle solution to get more people working on the post-discussion cleanup-effort, in part because there's a backlog and people seem to think the issue is that threads won't open early enough, but the real issue is that there's so many threads stuck in a permanent limbo, which means that less threads can open at a time, and making new ones just adds to the pile. No matter what, the only way to clear the backlog is to do the work, but nobody wants to. Thread participation declines rapidly as soon as it's time to touch the wicks or make a sandbox. It happens almost every time without fail.

Edited by WarJay77 on Feb 2nd 2020 at 12:40:47 PM

Coming here from the CM thread. I agree that it needs to be broadcasted more (though I plan to follow TRS stuff more closely now), because there's been at least once or twice where a decision had been made that affected thw CM potholes, and I was blindsided by it. Like, I can't complain TOO much since I hadn't paid attention, but I can't be the only one this has happened to.

I remain baffled at why potholes in CM examples are so necessary to keep intact that it created this whole rigmarole, because to me they are literally the least important part of examples in general, but that's a discussion for a different time and place.

So if there was an alert posted on the trope's page and as an important notice on every troper's sidebar, would you guys have stopped by to discuss the trope?