Pandemics and Epidemiology (COVID-19, monkeypox, etc.)

But then we could just quarantine the entire plane. Again, that does not seem to justify wearing masks for the entire country.

Is the Netherlands quarantining whole planes?

Also, how’s your border control with Belgium and Germany? Everyone getting checked there? Oh wait, they can’t be because you have completely open land borders.

Edited by Zendervai on May 23rd 2022 at 10:08:54 AM

I have no idea.

Is wearing masks that much of a hassle? I can understand not wanting to wear them outdoors but ditching them all together doesn't seem wise at the moment.

Then stop acting like you’re an authority, Redmess, do proper research, and actually listen to the people from the countries being most heavily affected.

You’re from the Netherlands, great. That means your experience is a minuscule slice of the whole and you keep dismissing everyone else because of your tiny little view of how the world works. Sit down, shut up and listen to the people who actually know what’s going on globally and who are being personally impacted by this stuff.

Edited by Zendervai on May 23rd 2022 at 10:10:56 AM

No shit.

Edited by SteamKnight on May 23rd 2022 at 9:11:09 PM

The Netherlands isn’t an isolated pocket dimension, everything in the world is interconnected and interlinked. The virus is raging in Africa and Indonesia and a lot of other places, and it takes a single slip-up to create a new massive outbreak.

And giving up on anti-covid measures means that it becomes dead easy to slip up. If the Netherlands isn’t masking, that means they aren’t doing any of the other more difficult anti-covid measures except maybe vaccination.

I really don't think it's a hassle at all, but then again, I'm Asian-American; my family is used to wearing masks when there's something harmful in the air.

FWIW, the US is still requiring a negative COVID test for anyone flying into the US no more than one day prior. And Lufthansa at least is still requiring masks for everyone unless you're eating something.

Okay, I’m honestly a little confused about this. Is the logic here that COVID anywhere should mean restrictions everywhere? How exactly does that work? Are we locking down for cases on the other side of the world? Also, how is it possible for a single slip-up to create a new massive outbreak when 67% of the world’s population is vaccinated? That doesn’t seem medically possible. [1]

What I’m not seeing in any of this is a solution. How do we get people to care again? I honestly don’t know. If nothing else, I would at least hope that people will begin to realize that the apocalyptic moralizing that fills this thread and so many other online spaces is actively unhelpful.

No offense archon, but that line of logic is why people didn't think that COVID would get out of Mainland China in the first place, and look at where we are now.

Considering my post started this, I'll explain the entire thing. My concern is less that global north should keep on locking down themselves or we should lock down the world, but more that if the global north deem covid is "over" thanks to how prevalent Eurocentrism is, the world pretty much consider covid to be over as well which isn't true because in global south, covid is still going strong for a lot of reasons.

If the global north, especially USA and Europe consider covid to be over, how long do you think those vaccine shipment and other aids will keep going to countries in need in global south? Let's face it, it is easy to forget or know about the people and countries in global south. That isn't a bug. It's a feature. Do you remember for example the crisis in Syrian refugee camp for example. At first, it's something that people talked about and a lot of donations and charity concerts for them flowing in, but after a while, all of those stop. Not because the crisis have been solved, but because the people of other countries lost engagement, bored, and moved on. How many people in global north do you think know about the current crisis in Sri Lanka? Probably only the Australians and it is because some refugees from Sri Lanka want to enter Australia and the right-wingers there launch ruthless anti-"immigrant" attacks to them to take down the Australian labor party.

That is my main concern that the people of global north will forget about the people of global south. Out of sight, out of mind. The vaccination rate among the people of global north has been sufficient I suppose, and it means they can and will pretend that covid is pretty much "over" and close their eyes. I wish the global south can be self-sufficient, but it's impossible at the moment. Even if the vaccine patent is let go. A lot of countries still don't have the resources and infrastructure to produce it and then distribute it since vaccines are fragile items. And that is before we talk about the local vaccine-hesitant or anti-vaxxer that will hinder those efforts.

To be honest, I find it weird that it suddenly swerve into Europeans need to be free from masks since I don't even talk about it. If they keep masking on, I think it's better to be safe than sorry since the world is becoming increasingly interconnected but with the vaccination rate there, it should be fine there now I hope. I am more worried about the people of global south that don't have all those benefits and thus still very vulnerable to covid.

It’s because your position has gotten conflated with that of Zendervai, who has been very firm in their stance that restrictions need to be maintained.

Pre-print, so maybe take this with a grain of salt, but: this year-long study at a community testing site in San Francisco compares severity of symptoms between the Delta and Omicron variants, taking the subjects' vaccination status into account. The most notable finding here is that boosted individuals who caught Omicron reported lower rates of fevers and body aches but higher rates of nose congestion. Which might be a good thing! Because it suggests that the immune systems of boosted persons could better intercept the virus while it's still infecting the nose's inner lining (where the highest concentrations of ACE2 receptors are), rather than waiting until it's further down the respiractory tract.

Also let’s be honest, the virus isn’t “over” in the global north either.

We’re just pretending it is because we don’t like the things we’re being asked to do to help stop it.

We're just ignoring the squid now.

When did the terms “Global North” and “Global South” start becoming popular here? And what’s the dividing line?

The terms come from a speech by JFK, the poor geography of which was mocked in this comic by XKCD, with the word Global having been added post-fast by scholars of international relations, who now use it.

The use here I believe is down to me, as I’ve been offering them up as an alternative to terms like First/Third World, The West and Developed/Developing World (which while still accurate it feels like a dick move to bring economic status into a situation unnecessarily).

It may be persistence more than popularity, but I’ll take it.

Edited by Silasw on May 24th 2022 at 9:46:54 AM

I shoulda known that if people start using a new phrase around here, it'd be because of you, eh, Mr. Popular?

Edit: Eh, don't knock yourself, what sticks around usually becomes popular by familiarity. I think there's a psychological effect to that idea, becoming closer through time and proximity.

Edited by fredhot16 on May 24th 2022 at 1:17:01 AM

I totally agree we need to get away from "third world" terminology, which has been utterly tainted by notions of poverty, starvation, war, and general notions of Otherness.

I already suggested Those Who Wish They Were Us or TWWTWU for short.

Don't the other classifications have the same issues? If you want to use global north/ global south, it still would have the same issues as global south is still mostly associated with the developing nations.

Edited by xyzt on May 24th 2022 at 2:43:25 PM

Yes, it does, it's called the euphemism treadmill. Though in this case I would also argue that the idea of "third world country" is outdated as a relic of the Cold War.