Pandemics and Epidemiology (COVID-19, monkeypox, etc.)

Oh, that. The mask mandate has been over for, what, a year now? It's not that odd that that is not a requirement any more.

I was in Taiwan recently to handle some family stuff, and I was pleased to see lots of people still wearing masks.

Granted, it's not that odd of a sight since we Taiwanese people often wore masks even before the COVID-19 pandemic, due to some parts of Taiwan not having the best air conditions, but it was definitely a welcome sight after hearing all sorts of bullshit from anti-maskers.

Taiwan has been easing some COVID-19 restrictions (for example, I didn't have to quarantine myself in a hotel at all), but it's definitely good to see some people are still taking the pandemic seriously.

Edited by dragonfire5000 on Jan 16th 2023 at 1:10:24 AM

Redmess, we've gone over this. In a medical context it is reasonable and fine to ask people to continue to wear masks. You know why? Because people in a medical context have a higher than average change of carrying an infectious disease. And while that might not be as much of an issue for a dentist, masks can help an awful lot in cases where a mouth or tooth issue is causing really bad breath. And since dental issues can flare up out of nowhere and require urgent medical attention, you can't assume the people at the dentist aren't sick.

I'm going to Japan in a couple of months and I've been told to bring a supply of masks. Personally, I think being overcautious is better than not being cautious enough, especially with something like masks which top out at being vaguely irritating for the vast majority of people.

And I think "wear a mask when you're in public while you're sick" should just be a general global thing.

Edited by Zendervai on Jan 16th 2023 at 2:40:57 PM

Re: Masks at the dentist, I've been making several visits last year while taking care of some issues and they have a sign requiring masks in the waiting areas.

For hospitals, yes, for dentists, not so much. And this is just a regular dentist, they don't really get the very bad cases, those would go to the hospital anyway.

For a while all UK medical establishments required masks, Dentists, Hospitals, Pharmacies, G Ps, even opticians.

That’s largely gone now, but it wasn’t a legal mandate, just something the medical institutions put in themselves. It can be hard to tell if places in the UK still have masking requirements or not, as many places got rid of their requirement but didn’t bother to take down the signs.

Edited by Silasw on Jan 16th 2023 at 9:13:14 AM

And we haven't had any new outbreaks for a year now without masks, so they don't really seem necessary any more.

Haven't had any reported outbreaks.

If you think that the government of the Netherlands is covering up outbreaks then that’s a claim that requires some evidence, rather than pure contrarianism.

It's complicated

"Since week 38 of 2020, the number of tests reported are corrected for underreporting from virological laboratories. The estimated number of tests is obtained by multiplying the weekly total number of tests reported from virological laboratories by the weekly ratio of COVID-19 notifications by municipal health services to positive tests reported from virological laboratories. From week 12 of 2021 up until week 12 of 2022, the number of entry tests for events and activities, as reported by ‘Stichting Open Nederland’, were being collected and were added to this data. From week 29 up to and including week 39 of 2021, the number of tests for commercial testing of outbound travellers, sourced from the various commercial testing organizations as reported by ‘the Ministry of Infrastructure and Water Management’, were added to these data. From March 31st 2021 until April 11th 2022, a positive self-test result needed to be confirmed at the Public Health Services’ system (PHS, in Dutch: GGD). From April 11th 2022 this is no longer required.

From January 1st 2023, the RIVM is collecting less additional information from people that have tested positive for SARS-Co V-2. As a result, we will not report any deaths anymore from January 1st 2023 and onwards, which will not affect the total number of cases reported in the NCOVAGGR file. Moreover, there is an underreporting in the number of deaths in data up and till 31st December 2022. This is due to the fact that it has never been obligatory to report deaths due to COVID-19 in the Netherlands. Because of this, PHS and RIVM do not have a complete overview of all deaths related to COVID-19. This underreporting did not affect the total number of cases reported in the NCOVAGGR file. In addition, in the reported data it was not possible to differentiate between persons who died with a COVID-19 infection and those were COVID-19 was the main cause of death. Statistics Netherlands is monitoring deaths attributed to COVID-19. In their latest update they have counts of death attributed to COVID-19 till August 2022."

By not mandating the reporting of deaths the Netherlands was defacto obfuscating the severity of outbreaks. It's not to the degree of conspiracy but when you're letting public health authorities hide deaths if they so choose it's not hard to see how it's obfuscatory.

That said this doesn't quite rise to the level of outright pretending an outbreak doesn't exist. So that claim does require some substantiation.

In Wales, hospitals, doctors, pharmacies and opticians are still insisting on masks and hand washing — especially when going to Velindre (Wales' dedicated cancer hospital).

It's not legally imposed, it's a choice Welsh health care has collectively made (we've joked that hospitals — and Velindre, especially — have probably been itching to do this kind of thing for years). However, since a business can evict people from their premises, staff can kick someone out if they don't follow the hygiene code.

I feel like hand sanitising when entering a hospital ward has always been a thing, even pre-COVID?

Yes, but not everyone did it, and staff didn't necessarily enforce it if they spotted it (except in the very vulnerable wards). But now they're more confident about doing that (that, or they're too burned out to turn a blind eye to it anymore).

We were talking mainly about the masking, given the fact that hospitals have had signs for years (prior to the pandemic) telling people they shouldn't enter the hospital unless they've gone 48 hours without any symptoms of colds, flu or upset stomaches. I've heard some medical staff say they'd like to see regular masking every winter just to help mitigate the flu season a little bit.

Edited by Wyldchyld on Jan 16th 2023 at 11:15:24 AM

I think providing free masks at the entrance would go a long way for that.

That's what's happening, especially in the cancer hospitals and the opticians. There's always masks available for collection at the entrance, along with hand sanitisers.

Random question that's been bugging me: Given that many (though certainly not all) American anti-vaxxers are Trump supporters, and Trump has admitted he is boosted, how do such people reconcile this in their heads? Like, do they just pretend it didn't happen? Do they think he only said that to placate certain groups but never actually got it? I'm genuinely curious how this group does mental gymnastics to declare such-and-such people (usually Democrats) "bought and paid for by big pharma" but Trump promotes the vaccines (and even takes credit for them) and gets a pass.

(before anyone brings it up, yes, I'm aware he was booed that one time he touted the vaccines at an event. I bet same people still support him despite this)

Edited by speedyboris on Jan 22nd 2023 at 3:08:07 AM

That's like making heads or tails of a Logic Bomb, which is to say I don't know. Maybe they think he's lying? Maybe not?

Edited by SilverCrown on Jan 22nd 2023 at 11:10:06 AM

Cognitive Dissonance. That is all.

Edited by Steven on Jan 22nd 2023 at 6:13:21 AM

x3 They consider loyalty to the Supreme Leader to be more important than such paltry considerations as "logic" or "ideological consistency" or "practicing what they f*cking preach, and meeting the standards that they hold others to"

These are people who will watch video footage of people they admire, or even footage of their very selves, saying things, and then deny that they said those things.

Consistency means nothing to them.

They are clearly great liars. I would cave immediately in such a situation.

Not that it matters whether or not they admit the lie, by the way. As long as the jury and judge are convinced that it is a lie, that's enough.

Edited by Redmess on Jan 23rd 2023 at 11:35:54 AM

At the risk of my own sanity, where did this recent "muscle spasm" thing come from with the vaccines? I'm fully aware it's bullshit (by default, since it's the latest thing antivaxxers seem to be espousing) but I have no idea how it even started. Just that it kinda did overnight.

It was a thing people tried to claim right when they got released, but I think it was just one person who remembered about it, did a video and now there's a bunch of people all trying to copy that first video.

Including the complete lack of research into what tremors and seizures are actually like and what to do or not do during them.

I got a bloody spot on the bridge of my nose again, where the top of my mask comes up to.

I think that is your cue to just stop wearing a mask for a while and let your nose heal.