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Removing complaining in Star Wars subpages

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immichan Since: Jan, 2018
#176: Feb 15th 2020 at 1:40:20 PM

[up] Ha! Thanks, Earthbound Fan! And thanks for taking your ax to it, too.

EarthboundFan Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
RoundRobin Since: Jun, 2018
#178: Feb 15th 2020 at 2:14:11 PM

Should we ask for Star Wars to be replaced with Star Wars Narm? I know that cleanup isn't done yet, but it's a hell of a lot better than the current version, and we can always update it again.

- Fly, robin, fly! - ...I'm trying!
immichan Since: Jan, 2018
#179: Feb 15th 2020 at 2:48:40 PM

[up][up] Oh, it's beautiful.

[up] It's MUCH better than it was before! Legends could be dealt with in or out of Sandbox.

EarthboundFan Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#180: Feb 15th 2020 at 3:34:55 PM

As of now, we have officially cleaned through every folder on Narm.Star Wars. In the name of the Galactic Senate of the Republic, I believe we should request an unlock. Thoughts?

Brainulator9 Short-Term Projects herald from US Since: Aug, 2018 Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Short-Term Projects herald
#181: Feb 15th 2020 at 4:21:34 PM

Are you threatening me, Master Jedi?

I just cleaned up the last bits of the page and turned the injunction against misuse into a commented-out note which may make sense to duplicate on other Narm subpages as seen fit.

Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
immichan Since: Jan, 2018
#182: Feb 17th 2020 at 10:46:10 AM

Re: Unlocking the Narm:

Good... goooood...

(Yes, I agree!)

Shall we request a lock and make sandboxes for anything else on Star Wars Cleanup? YMMV.The Rise Of Skywalker in particular just keeps getting worse and worse with most edits just being further complaints.

EarthboundFan Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#183: Feb 17th 2020 at 2:46:51 PM

Oh, yes, we should lock YMMV.The Rise Of Skywalker. First, we should probably remove this line: (Anti-Climax Boss)

For all of the sheer build-up there is to it, the final battle against Emperor Palpatine isn't a particularly impressive battle in of itself. Palpatine barely does anything aside from draining Ben and Rey's essence and throwing them around with the Force. Given the environment he was fought in, he could have used his power to try and crush Rey and Ben or even throw entire ships at them, forcing them to work together, but instead his showings are very weak compared to what he is capable of. On top of that, Rey defeats Palpatine by simply deflecting his Force Lightning back at him with both of her lightsabers (a tactic very similar to Windu's and Yoda's duels with Palpatine years prior). She may have required more help and power than we could obviously see, considering the implication she was assisted by the spirits of all the fallen Jedi, but visually it's still disappointing.

Aside from being blatant complaining, this is written so back-and-forth. What does everyone say?

immichan Since: Jan, 2018
#184: Feb 17th 2020 at 3:00:20 PM

[up] Ooof, that writing.

Some of the argument there makes me go to the Fridge (he's clearly in a weak body, makes it clear he wants Rey's stronger body, and not at full power despite claiming he's "all the Sith"). But there's a kernel of a point that it isn't as visually or emotionally complex as the climaxes in other SW films? Return of the Jedi was a big special effects achievement, for instance, and Revenge of the Sith had the interpersonal drama going for it. Heeeavy rewrite perhaps.

Nevermind— after looking at what the trope actually IS versus what I ASSUMED from the name, it doesn't actually fit.

Edited by immichan on Feb 17th 2020 at 6:07:01 AM

chasemaddigan I'm Sad Frogerson. Since: Oct, 2011
I'm Sad Frogerson.
#185: Feb 17th 2020 at 3:06:32 PM

[nja] Nevermind.

Edited by chasemaddigan on Feb 17th 2020 at 6:06:50 AM

Ferot_Dreadnaught Since: Mar, 2015
#186: Feb 18th 2020 at 3:19:21 PM

Memes.The Rise Of Skywalker

  • After The Last Jedi was subject to a distinct Critical Dissonance, jokes were made that Disney was bribing critics. This became a meme when the critical reception for Skywalker was the exact reverse.

It seems to violate this rule on the page: "Please add entries in the following format:"

  • The meme. Explanation 
    • Further mutations and successor memes, if any.

Do all Memetic Mutation need the labelnote:Explanation format? (If they don't I don't think they lack the out of context memorability that makes something memetic.) Or just examples on Memes pages?

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#187: Feb 18th 2020 at 3:21:58 PM

[up] I don't see why that should be a necessity, as some memes can't just be broken down into "Meme:explanation in a note". Sometimes the meme isn't just a repeated phrase or joke, but more of a recurring fandom gag or something.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
RoundRobin Since: Jun, 2018
#188: Feb 18th 2020 at 4:44:11 PM

Easily fixed with a simple addition:

"Disney's bribing the critics." Explanation 

ETA: I'm not sure about its validity, though, as it comes across as a potshot at the movie. Is it a legitimate meme?

Edited by RoundRobin on Feb 18th 2020 at 2:45:11 PM

- Fly, robin, fly! - ...I'm trying!
EarthboundFan Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#189: Feb 18th 2020 at 4:56:31 PM

[up] I don't know, but I was the one who wrote the "TROS' reception was the reverse" part; It was originally "colder reception to Rise spawned jokes that they ran out of bribe money", which I slightly changed for being a litle ROCEJ-y Sorry if that created any issues.

Edited by EarthboundFan on Feb 18th 2020 at 5:25:58 AM

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#190: Feb 18th 2020 at 5:09:50 PM

[up] I mean... if that's what the joke is...

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
EarthboundFan Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#191: Feb 18th 2020 at 5:25:24 PM

[up] Well, no, I wouldn't call it the "ultimate culmination" of the meme or anything. It was a secondary sentence, and one that I barely re-wrote.


Found this from YMMV.The Rise Of Skywalker:

"Uncertain Audience: Multiple critics have attributed the film's very divisive critical reception to the fact it attempts to split the difference between appealing to both the "Sci-Fi Ghetto" fans of the old films and the more trendy "true cinema" audience cultivated by The Last Jedi's more daring and subversive deconstruction of the franchise, ultimately alienating both groups with a conclusion to the series that only satisfies few."

"Only satisfies few", for a movie with an 86% audience score on Rotten Tomatoes...

Edited by EarthboundFan on Feb 18th 2020 at 5:26:28 AM

immichan Since: Jan, 2018
#192: Feb 18th 2020 at 5:43:19 PM

[up][up] I haven't seen any "bribing the critics" jokes for this movie or TLJ, but maybe they aren't being made in my corners of the inter webs. Hrmm.

[up] That's a good example of a bad example. I almost put in a lock request earlier so the page can get wrangled without getting worse by the day, but I got distracted.

EarthboundFan Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#194: Feb 19th 2020 at 4:35:13 AM

[up] I wouldn't lock YMMV.Star Wars, that page doesn't have the same type of issues.

Another poorly-written line from YMMV.The Rise Of Skywalker:

Critic-Proof: To some extent. The film received a mostly lukewarm response from critics, but it still made over a billion dollars at the box office ($1.059 billion worldwide, to be precise) and became the eighth highest grossing movie of 2019. Then again, fan reception was also mixed on the whole and despite crossing the one billion mark at the box office, it ended up being by far the lowest grossing of the Sequel Trilogy,; even Rogue One ($1.056 billion) outdid it by a small margin at the domestic box office.office (it grossed more worldwide as well when inflation is considered). Some commentators have, half-jokingly, called it the first film to ever gross over a billion dollars but still somehow be seen as having a disappointing box office. The expectations for a Star Wars film at the box office are higher than nearly any other franchise. Adjusted for inflation, The Rise of Skywalker is the franchise's second lowest grossing main entry, only above Attack of the Clones.

So, what this is telling me is "Oh, it didn't do well with critics but did well at the box office, but it also didn't do so well at the box office."

Edited by EarthboundFan on Feb 19th 2020 at 4:38:28 AM

Brainulator9 Short-Term Projects herald from US Since: Aug, 2018 Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Short-Term Projects herald
#195: Feb 19th 2020 at 4:43:55 AM

[up] That's so rambly, it should be cut.

Contains 20% less fat than the leading value brand!
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#197: Feb 19th 2020 at 6:48:18 AM

[up][up][up]Remove that.

Wait why are we locking Star Wars. That seems like overkill since that page doesn't have too many issues to make that necessary.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
immichan Since: Jan, 2018
#198: Feb 19th 2020 at 9:28:08 AM

My bad! I mistook what we were asking to have locked and what we were cleaning without locks. I'll correct my request!

immichan Since: Jan, 2018
#199: Feb 19th 2020 at 6:59:55 PM

Okay, posted request to lock ONLY YMMV.The Rise Of Skywalker.

Also, last night I made a sandbox for that:

I made other sandboxes but they may be overkill if we can just edit the live pages for them? But could be helpful if people go back-and-forth on changes?

ErikModi Knight Bachelor from Where ComStar can't find me. Since: Mar, 2012 Relationship Status: Pining for the fjords
Knight Bachelor
#200: Feb 20th 2020 at 3:51:12 AM

I have two YMMV Rise of Skywalker observations I've been hesitant to post. The first might be too complainy, and I'm not sure where it would fit:

  • With Rise debuting a fleet of Imperial-class Star Destroyers each armed with a Planet Killer superweapon, Serial Escalation has reached its apex (or perhaps nadir). After this Sith Fleet, there just isn't anywhere else for the franchise to escalate to, short of drawing on Legends-level silliness like the Sun Crusher.

The second would most likely fit under Author's Saving Throw, but may be just irrelevant:

  • One could probably write a very interesting thesis for film school on how the whole sequel trilogy was influenced and affected by fan reactions in the internet age and the Broken Base pervasive in the Star Wars fandom. "Everyone" hated the Prequels, latching on to Conspicuous CGI as the easiest complaint closely followed politics, so The Force Awakens leaned harder into practical effects and a story closer to the Original Trilogy. "Everyone" hated it for being a bad remake of A New Hope, so The Last Jedi went with a wholly different take on a Star Wars story and subverted expectations at every opportunity. "Everyone" hated it for being too different, so The Rise of Skywalker retcons the most unpopular plot points of Last Jedi, sets Ben Solo on a redemption arc just like Anakin, and brings back Emperor Palpatine in an effort to give the fans what they want. And "everyone" still hates it.

Also, is there an effort towards cleaning up the assorted Headscratchers pages? Many of them have redundant questions and answers, and there's a long argument on the The Empire Strikes Back page that accomplishes nothing.

Edited by ErikModi on Feb 20th 2020 at 5:55:54 AM

PageAction: StarWarsACI
16th Apr '20 9:57:39 AM

Crown Description:

Sandbox.Star Wars ACI has collected examples of Alternative Character Interpretation for Star Wars characters across more than 20 pages, including AlternativeCharacterInterpretation.Star Wars. Some characters have entries on AlternativeCharacterInterpretation.Star Wars, plus the YMMV pages for works where they make appearances, ex. Anakin Skywalker is on franchise-wide, Return of the Jedi, each of the prequel films, Thrawn: Alliances, plus the Darth Vader entries. This is just looking at the canon namespaces and not Legends. Before fixing issues with the examples themselves, we need to decide on how this trope will be organized for this franchise. These options are mutually exclusive; while you can find more than one acceptable, we will only enact one. For a different explanation of the options and the problems with this trope, see the Star Wars Cleanup thread: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=15787899810A93565000&page=12#comment-294

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