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Wha Happun? (Matt McMuscles)

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MisterTambourineMan Unbeugsame Klinge from Under a tree Since: Jun, 2017 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
Unbeugsame Klinge
#901: Sep 4th 2021 at 1:54:15 PM

This was another one of those videos where the "what happened" was that they had a bad idea to start with.

Nach jeder Ebbe kommt die Flut.
Mega_zxa Since: Mar, 2015
#902: Sep 4th 2021 at 2:57:47 PM

One major problem that Star Fox has is that it sort of needs the story to move forward. They tried the Mario route and this is a game that feels like it needs some sort of forward movement of the story rather than gameplay innovation to keep up.

NesClassic Meh-meh!? from Flyover Country Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: In another castle
Meh-meh!?
#903: Sep 4th 2021 at 3:30:09 PM

You can see that approach working for the Metroid series in turn, with most games either being improvements on the existing formula (Samus Returns) or using its framework to create something new (Fusion)- but either way they also give special thought to how they fit into the overarching storyline of the franchise.

I also think Miyamoto was half-right about their there being appeal in games where you need some time to learn the controls- character action games like Bayonetta came to mind as a good example of that. The difference is those games don't have clunky control schemes, just difficult-to-master ones with a lot going on. And that's where Star Fox Zero falls; it's a game with a control scheme that's awkward on an intrinsic level with no learning curve to it.

Edited by NesClassic on Sep 5th 2021 at 10:29:02 AM

🏳️‍⚧️she/her | Vio Rhyse Alberia
ShirowShirow Dinosaur Hunter from Land of Maple Syrup (Old as dirt)
Dinosaur Hunter
#904: Sep 4th 2021 at 3:44:34 PM

Difficult to learn, but no innate satisfaction for learning it huh.

You are not alone.
BOOXMOWO Since: Mar, 2013
#905: Sep 4th 2021 at 4:35:13 PM

Never played Star Fox Zero, but it sounds like Nintendo really overestimated people's ability to look at their controller and their television simultaneously.

Karxrida from Eureka, the Forbidden Land Since: May, 2012 Relationship Status: I LOVE THIS DOCTOR!
#906: Sep 4th 2021 at 4:44:40 PM

I bet they thought it would be as natural as a DS. But the DS screens were right next to each other at a fixed distance, so one was always in your periphery or you can just see both. The Wii U's pad is likely to be used in the lap due to its size and often requires completely looking away from the TV to concentrate on it. Even if you can somehow keep the TV in your peripheral vision, it's probably out of your vision's focus entirely.

Edited by Karxrida on Sep 4th 2021 at 4:46:50 AM

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#907: Sep 4th 2021 at 5:00:17 PM

Nintendo can be too experimental for its own good.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
RacattackForce (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#908: Sep 4th 2021 at 5:29:54 PM

Bought Star Fox Zero on a whim when it came out. Not a huge Star Fox fan, but I had fond memories of playing it as a kid... well, the multiplayer, at least. I could never beat the asteroid stage as a kid, so I never actually beat the main game until I was in high school and getting back into gaming. In any case, I bought Star Fox Zero on release weekend and... never beat it. Don't think I've even opened the case since that weekend.

The controls just never clicked, and my own need to replay levels to get better scores before moving on meant I just ended up frustrated by the whole experience after spending an entire weekend trying to wrap my head around it. I love Nintendo's mindset that you can't just release Mission Pack Sequels, but building the entire game so much around the Game Pad was just a bad move all around. Which sucks, because it feels like there's a decent Star Fox underneath it all (second continuity reboot aside).

On the flip side, I loved the hell out of Star Fox Guard and continued to play that for weeks afterward: Matt dismisses it in the video, but it is legitimately a damn good tower defense game that makes perfect use of the Wii U Gamepad. Sucks that it gets overlooked, because it's the only reason I don't fully regret my purchase.

Edited by RacattackForce on Sep 4th 2021 at 8:32:35 AM

Mega_zxa Since: Mar, 2015
#909: Sep 4th 2021 at 9:21:23 PM

Sadly Star Fox Zero is another example of Nintendo not really knowing what to do with the gamepad. I mean how often have people been wondering why we didn't get a new pokemon snap game on the Wii U. Using the gamepad to take photos is something that comes across as much more natural and a control scheme that would actually click with players. What we got with Star Fox Zero never really felt natural, and just wasn't going to click. Giving games some interesting controls is something that should be done, but one needs to recognize when a control scheme just doesn't work with a game, and Nintendo really missed the mark on Star Fox Zero.

MisterTambourineMan Unbeugsame Klinge from Under a tree Since: Jun, 2017 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
Unbeugsame Klinge
#910: Sep 4th 2021 at 10:09:55 PM

[up] I've spent plenty of time on the Wii U over the years, but I think Pikmin 3 was the only game I played that really made good use of the gamepad.

Edited by MisterTambourineMan on Sep 4th 2021 at 10:10:12 AM

Nach jeder Ebbe kommt die Flut.
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#911: Sep 5th 2021 at 2:56:37 AM

So Miyamoto is rather too controlling.

Also he maybe too against story. I mean I get focusing more on gameplay but generally most people care enough about story in if it can provide entertaining enough stuff to fight against.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Ookamikun This is going to be so much fun. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
This is going to be so much fun.
#912: Sep 5th 2021 at 4:17:47 AM

To be quite honest I dunno how this fits with Wha Happun? since the only bad thing that happened is that it flopped.

People forget the 64 timeline. It had a proper progressive story with 64->Adventures->Assault. Apparently they were just low sellers that they regress to remaking 64 multiple times.

[up]It's less more controlling and more of him being the only one interested in the game. It's actually visible in every "Miyamoto-idea" franchise - even if they bomb they will still resurface.

MisterTambourineMan Unbeugsame Klinge from Under a tree Since: Jun, 2017 Relationship Status: Browsing the selection
Unbeugsame Klinge
#913: Sep 5th 2021 at 6:47:11 AM

[up] He sometimes does videos of the games just because they're seen as "bad" even though they didn't actually have a troubled development. It's the flipside of him having to remind viewers of the show's actual focus every time he has an episode on a good game.

Nach jeder Ebbe kommt die Flut.
ShirowShirow Dinosaur Hunter from Land of Maple Syrup (Old as dirt)
Dinosaur Hunter
#914: Sep 5th 2021 at 11:24:08 AM

"Something went wrong" is the core of the series, I think. While Zero wasn't really have a Troubled Production something definitely went wrong.

I wouldn't say Shigeru is necessarily too controlling, we've never worked with the guy what can we say, but he's definitely such an industry legend that few to none are willing to argue with him.

You are not alone.
Lyendith Since: Mar, 2011
#915: Sep 5th 2021 at 11:56:36 AM

…I wondered why you were all talking about Miyamoto in the present, but it turns out the guy’s indeed alive and kicking. My memory’s playing tricks on me.

Might have confused him with Iwata Satoru. >.>

NesClassic Meh-meh!? from Flyover Country Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: In another castle
Meh-meh!?
#916: Sep 5th 2021 at 12:30:24 PM

Yup, Iwata passed away during Zero's production and the game is dedicated to him as such.

Miyamoto's not as directly involved in games as he used to be; for the past while he's been one of the project leads for the Super Nintendo World park at Universal Studios Japan, and he's also juggling that with overseeing Illumination's Mario movie. Doesn't mean the Mario games are free from meddling- allegedly Paper Mario: The Origami King still had restrictions imposed on it- but he hasn't directly handled a video game for a while now.

🏳️‍⚧️she/her | Vio Rhyse Alberia
Ookamikun This is going to be so much fun. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
This is going to be so much fun.
#917: Sep 5th 2021 at 5:04:54 PM

[up]Nah as usual that's just internet obsessed with Miyamoto stifling creativity due to Urban Legend of Zelda. He's practically hands off to Paper Mario and it's all on Tanabe.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#918: Sep 5th 2021 at 7:06:31 PM

Nintendo can be too experimental for its own good.

<Still remembers getting a headache trying out a Virtual Boy in the store.>

Disgusted, but not surprised
RacattackForce (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#919: Sep 5th 2021 at 11:39:12 PM

[up][up]An actual moment of Miyamoto flipping tea tables: Link's Crossbow Training actually grew out of what could have very well developed into a Twilight Princess 2. The development team was trying to come up with new stories that could be told using that game's version of Hyrule that could function as a Gaiden Game that wouldn't take too long to develop (a Majora's Mask to its Ocarina of Time as Miyamoto himself explains it). Miyamoto soon felt they were focusing too much on trying to come up with "epic tales" rather than game mechanics though, so decided that all the story ideas should be tossed out in favor of honing in on a more simple arcade-style experience with the Wii Zapper as the centerpiece.

While Super Mario 64 was the last game Miyamoto has a director credit for, he still continued to have varying levels of input on a ton of EAD games throughout the 2000s as a producer depending on whatever projects struck his fancy (after all, Pikmin exists), up until he stepped into the "Creative Fellow" position in the mid-2010s (where his input on Nintendo's game development is now just take-it-or-leave-it advice and mentoring younger devs).

Ookamikun This is going to be so much fun. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
This is going to be so much fun.
#920: Sep 6th 2021 at 10:36:40 PM

I'm pretty sure Pikmin is his baby. It's why it could still be made to this day.

NesClassic Meh-meh!? from Flyover Country Since: Dec, 2012 Relationship Status: In another castle
Meh-meh!?
#921: Sep 11th 2021 at 7:41:23 AM

This week, Matt's soul burns with questions about what happened to Soulcalibur V. Deciding to put your story through a Time Skip is always a risky proposition, especially if fan-favorite fighters don't return and you have their descendants instead. Some fighters did return without having aged a bit (notably women like Ivy) so they were a bit inconsistent about whether they wanted to push the cast forward or not.

Combine that with most of Namco's staff working on other projects and V having a very short development time, and it isn't a surprise the game's story and other modes were so lackluster. The gameplay was polished at least, but that didn't do much to help the game's sales out.

Mortal Kombat X isn't mentioned at all in the video, but I've seen people on this forum compare it to Soul Calibur V before as an example of how to do the time skip concept right in a fighting game. Don't replace the old cast, and have the story focus on the new kids coming into the roles of their parents- doing it like that does far more to endear them to longtime fans.

🏳️‍⚧️she/her | Vio Rhyse Alberia
CountofBleck Starting to believe in himself from New Wirral (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Starting to believe in himself
#922: Sep 11th 2021 at 7:56:43 AM

What also isnt mentioned is the weird and awkward Soul Calibur: Lost Swords, which had overpriced skimpy outfits that would probably break site guidelines if i linked them, Sophitia being alive, kind of, a stamina system, and kept getting promoted over sol calibur v itself for years until it fizzled out.

Ookamikun This is going to be so much fun. (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
This is going to be so much fun.
#923: Sep 11th 2021 at 8:47:59 AM

I'm gonna hazard a guess that it's a mobile gacha game.

So basically Project Soul is dead right? And from what I heard even VI's kinda gone with its head project developer leaving Bamco too.

CountofBleck Starting to believe in himself from New Wirral (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
Starting to believe in himself
#924: Sep 11th 2021 at 9:11:31 AM

That was the Producer, Oukubo, who recently left. SCVI is still doing fine, broke 2 million copies worldwide, though with the rise of rollback netcode i think people will want an improved netplay experience

Lyendith Since: Mar, 2011
#925: Sep 11th 2021 at 1:58:03 PM

Man, 2B’s really a popular guest character. She’s been in FFXIV, Punishing Gray Raven, and now I learned she was also in SCVI. surprised


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