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I suggest that we change the spoiler policy.

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EarthboundFan Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#101: Dec 8th 2019 at 2:22:18 PM

I'm horrible at phrasing things. By "Free edit" I meant "Not locked".

bwburke94 I am mad scientist! It's so cool! from 1.048596% (Y2: Electric Boogaloo) Relationship Status: She does the things you do, but she is an IBM
I am mad scientist! It's so cool!
#102: Dec 8th 2019 at 2:22:43 PM

If anything, we should probably request the page be locked after this discussion is over, to prevent this from happening in the future.

2025: the year it all ends?
Brainulator9 Short-Term Projects herald from US Since: Aug, 2018 Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Short-Term Projects herald
#103: Dec 8th 2019 at 2:26:26 PM

Or just lock it now so as to avoid stealthy lateral policy changes.

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WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#104: Dec 8th 2019 at 2:27:10 PM

Yeah, I agree with locking it, too.

I'm shocked most policy pages aren't locked by default, TBH...

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
EarthboundFan Since: Jul, 2019 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#105: Dec 8th 2019 at 2:36:30 PM

I already knew that editing Administrivia pages without a good reason was a one-way ticket to suspension town. Can you at least take my proposal for an edit with a grain salt, for being... well... an idea to get feedback on?

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#106: Dec 8th 2019 at 2:38:04 PM

[up] It's just still troubling that you think this thread has arrived at any sort of consensus.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
bwburke94 I am mad scientist! It's so cool! from 1.048596% (Y2: Electric Boogaloo) Relationship Status: She does the things you do, but she is an IBM
I am mad scientist! It's so cool!
#107: Dec 8th 2019 at 5:53:34 PM

The closest we have to a consensus is that the age line for automatic spoilers-off shouldn't be 95 years.

But we still need to decide what the line is. And whether it's a strict line at all.

2025: the year it all ends?
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#108: Dec 8th 2019 at 5:54:04 PM

[up] And if there even should be a line.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
bwburke94 I am mad scientist! It's so cool! from 1.048596% (Y2: Electric Boogaloo) Relationship Status: She does the things you do, but she is an IBM
I am mad scientist! It's so cool!
#109: Dec 8th 2019 at 6:27:06 PM

The mythology rule would handle most of the ridiculously old stuff anyway.

2025: the year it all ends?
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#110: Dec 8th 2019 at 9:01:44 PM

I think mythology technically comes under "real life," so to speak, so it's spoilers off for a reason besides age.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
ssjSega Since: Sep, 2017
#111: Dec 15th 2019 at 3:16:18 PM

Speaking of this (and I don't know if this was brought up prior in the thread), but what about spoilers for review channels? They tend to spoil the plots and twists of whatever it is they are reviewing, so shouldn't a spoiler warning be added to their pages? I added this to the SomecallmeJohnny page because the guy does tend to spoil the plot of whatever game he's reviewing:


Warning! Johnny is known for spoiling the plot of the games he reviews in each of his videos. As such, all spoilers for said games will be unmarked.

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#112: Dec 19th 2019 at 2:24:23 PM

You know, the more I think about it I'm questioning the need for spoilers on work pages in general. Some event movies like Avengers Endgame and the Star Wars sequels disabled spoilers altogether because of how useless it is to have half the page marked out, and there is a general issue of some topics are spoiled in one area but left unspoiled in another. A MUCH easier approach would probably be to have a standard disclaimer on all work pages that they are operating on the impression that visitors have seen the work in question.

Spoilers in general are still needed for trope pages and forums, and we maintain a spoilers-free-in-work-description policy so that accidentally spoiled on visiting a page is kept to a minimum. I get this would be an enormous change, and a curation nightmare for existing works, but we've done similar things for the strikethrough markup.

Twiddler (On A Trope Odyssey)
#113: Dec 19th 2019 at 3:23:20 PM

[up] Some works are not linear. For example, works with Multiple Endings where part of the experience is finding different endings; visual novels with multiple routes; optional side-plots or secret content in video games; puzzle games with multiple possible solutions.

WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#114: Dec 19th 2019 at 6:30:27 PM

[up] Or CYOA books.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
bwburke94 I am mad scientist! It's so cool! from 1.048596% (Y2: Electric Boogaloo) Relationship Status: She does the things you do, but she is an IBM
I am mad scientist! It's so cool!
#115: Dec 19th 2019 at 6:50:44 PM

[up][up][up] That's a solution in search of a problem.

2025: the year it all ends?
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#116: Dec 19th 2019 at 6:55:56 PM

I'm still torn about it. TBH, I'm just looking for a rule that is consistently enforced and doesn't have any arbitrary double standards. Stripping spoiler tags from all work pages would be a drastic change that'd upset a lot of people... but it'd technically solve the problem with PD works being treated differently than other works. As would just removing that rule and doing it all on a case-by-case-basis.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Brainulator9 Short-Term Projects herald from US Since: Aug, 2018 Relationship Status: I get a feeling so complicated...
Short-Term Projects herald
#117: Dec 19th 2019 at 6:57:40 PM

My opinion is still that you're inviting yourself to spoilers by looking at a page that tells you things that happen in a work.

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KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#118: Dec 20th 2019 at 4:05:45 AM

That's always been the issue with most rules, clarity of purpose and consistent enforcement. Since any given work is going to have different standards of what is a spoiler in the plot, there is no hard line between what is an obvious spoiler versus what was not evident in the trailer. No spoiler tags on work pages will only work if there is a warning tag on work pages in general, so this is more than just policy change but some programming involved.

Of course, this is all just a spitball idea if we are agreeing that there are problems with the spoiler policy.

rjd1922 Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular, from the United States Since: May, 2013 Relationship Status: Love is for the living, Sal
Best robot boy | he/him | Image Pickin' regular,
#119: Dec 21st 2019 at 2:36:45 PM

I agree with burke and RallyBot that we should keep spoiler tags on most work pages. A lot of people like spoiler tags: if you don't, just check "show spoilers". I agree that being public domain shouldn't be a hard line, and think there should be a thread to decide whether specific pages should be Spoilers Off or not. Works that have entered the public consciousness, like mythology, the Bible, and Shakespeare, should be Spoilers Off, but not every Agatha Christie and Sherlock Holmes novel. On the other hand, spoiler tags are often overused; they should hide twists, not just plot elements.

[down]I meant RallyBot, not WarJay.

Edited by rjd1922 on Dec 21st 2019 at 5:42:39 AM

Keet cleanup
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (10,238/50,000)
#120: Dec 21st 2019 at 2:44:45 PM

Eh, my opinion is more neutral than anything. I think spoiler tags are extremely overused and agree with the general sentiment that at some point, people should expect to be spoiled if they're willingly reading a work's page, and that if protecting readers comes at the cost of hiding necessary information about the work / making the page look like swiss cheese, cutting the spoiler tags is a better solution than keeping the mess.

But, I also know it'd be an extreme change and that a lot of people do look at work pages to see if they'd be interested in the story before they check out the work itself, and that people who don't care can just turn off the markup entirely, sooo...yeah.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
RallyBot2 (Elder Troper) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
#121: Dec 21st 2019 at 7:45:37 PM

that a lot of people do look at work pages to see if they'd be interested in the story before they check out the work itself

This is one of my primary concerns here, as I believe I've stated before.

Another is that we really should be clearly defining the things that shouldn't be tagged, with the obvious example being the basic premise of the work (First-Episode Twist). I think a lot of the dislike for tags in this thread comes from people using it for things they really shouldn't.

Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#122: Dec 21st 2019 at 8:55:02 PM

Another vote for "keep spoiler tags." That is the entire point of having the spoiler toggle be right there on every single page. You don't like spoilers, you can turn them off. Yes, there is a point where it's your own fault you are spoiled, but people shouldn't have to worry about seeing massive spoilers right out in the open just from visiting a page they thought might be interesting.

We've been leaving some of the major blockbuster movies spoilers off, and we put a big warning at the top of the page to make sure people know.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
crazysamaritan NaNo 4328 / 50,000 from Lupin III Since: Apr, 2010
NaNo 4328 / 50,000
#123: Dec 21st 2019 at 9:12:57 PM

Do you mean you're voting for "allow spoilers tags for all work pages, except on a case-by-case basis"? Because the issue here is that there's two categories of work pages; ones where spoilers tags are forbidden by default and ones where spoilers tags are allowed by default. The argument that people shouldn't expect to have story surprises revealed when reading a page that analyzes the methods of storytelling for a specific work applies just as well to works made five months ago, five years ago, five decades ago, and five centuries ago. The current policy makes an arbitrary and inconsistent delineation that says some works are not allowed spoiler tags and no warning is needed.

Link to TRS threads in project mode here.
Discar Since: Jun, 2009
#124: Dec 22nd 2019 at 8:02:04 AM

Personally, I would prefer not to have any work pages be spoilers off, but if we are going to do that, then putting a big spoiler warning at the top is necessary. If the entire policy was changed to "no spoilers on work pages," we wouldn't be bothering with the spoiler warning.

So yes, on a case by case basis, I'm fine with "spoilers off" for work pages.

Writing a post-post apocalypse LitRPG on RR. Also fanfic stuff.
bwburke94 I am mad scientist! It's so cool! from 1.048596% (Y2: Electric Boogaloo) Relationship Status: She does the things you do, but she is an IBM
I am mad scientist! It's so cool!
#125: Dec 22nd 2019 at 10:46:27 PM

As I've been saying from the beginning, it's far safer to have "spoilers on" be the default, because it allows the reader to choose whether they want spoiler tags.

It might even make sense to have a Spoilers Off nomination thread, to avoid a repeat of the Joker (2019) situation.

2025: the year it all ends?

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