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Yay, another cleanup thread!
Spoiled Sweet is a trope that needs a dedicated cleanup effort because of the Trope Decay. The trope is used for a very vague notion of characters who are spoiled and at the same time nice.
There are relatively few examples on the page (about 100), yet it has over 1800 wicks.
This trope is problematic because many people believe it automatically makes the character more likeable and they apply it even when it doesn't really fit. Tropers often ignore that there are other similar tropes that fit better, at least for the example context provided.
I made a sandbox page with some arguments and things that should be addressed (the first part of this post). See Spoiled Sweet Cleanup. There are also some examples of misuse with my explanation why it's misuse. It includes examples that are too vague or ZCE.
However, I've been told before that I interpret the trope too narrowly or that I enforce too strict standards to this trope, but that is not my intention. So if you think I misrepresent the trope or if some ZCE that are actually valid examples got removed, I'd be happy to hear it. I'm very open to discussing it.
I'd appreciate any help with the cleanup. I try to maintain this trope and I occasionally remove misuse or comment out ZCE, but it's like a hydra. I feel like whenever I cut 10 misused examples, 20 more appear in no time.
Crosswicking good examples back to the trope page would help a lot, too.
Edited by XFllo on Nov 13th 2019 at 5:46:13 PM
300 wicks down, 1500 wicks to check.
Progress report: 1338.
ETA: 1200. Phew!
Edited by XFllo on Nov 9th 2019 at 4:49:14 PM
Here is one example that I want to talk about.
Frankie from Degrassi: The Next Generation.
Original write-up: Almost a zero-context example. It just says she's not mean and that her parents are rich.
Second write-up, added without discussing it first, might I add.
That's getting better. The "sweet" part is explained well. However, Spoiled Sweet is supposed to be indulged and pampered, usually by family and friends alike. "The fact that her family relationships are less-than-perfect probably contributed to her modest demeanour" suggests she's not really pampered. Being wealthy is not enough context, many rich characters are miserable in fiction, for example a Lonely Rich Kid. Being modest or humble is also off this trope.
In this ATT, there is this discussion of Frankie, which suggests she could fit this trope:
I don't think that would count, really. It tackles the "Sweet" part, but I don't see the "Spoiled" part at all. It provides no context as to if the mayor spoils her at all. Maybe someone who knows Degrassi can add more context.
Thanks for your feedback. That's what I think as well. For now, the example is commented out as half-context example. A link to the character sheet.
Hey, about this trope...I've seen a few examples of this deleted / commented out when I actually think the character DOES qualify for the trope (or a subversion / deconstruction), it's just that the actual description of how they fit into the trope is poorly written so it's not clear. Can I put it back in these circumstances? Or does it need to be approved by this thread?
Thanks for stopping by! Actually, it would be awesome and wonderful if you did just that. :-)
Disclaimer: I don't have any special power or editing privileges over this trope.
The misuse is pretty bad in my opinion, but probably nowhere near as bad as Complete Monster, The Scrappy, Creator's Pet or Woobie, which are some examples of audience-reaction-tropes that require to be approved by cleanup threads. What helps here is that Spoiled Sweet is an objective trope and it's easier to decide if the character is an example.
How I do the cleanup: I just delete examples that are classic ZCE, entirely without context — to make this cleanup easier. I know it's recommended to comment it out, but it's really tiring to keep coming to a page, only for me to realise that I have read those ZCE several times.
If the example context clearly points to another trope, I swap it (it often happens with Sheltered Aristocrat).
If the example context is so-so or half-context, and especially if it seems it's really an example, only poorly explained, I comment it out with %%.
You can put any examples you feel are valid back. I'd be happy to provide feedback though.
I'd be careful with subversions: there has to be a clear set up and then not delivering on those expectation, like Bait-and-Switch. I'm not saying it's impossible for this trope, I feel it's likely it's gonna be an example of another trope.
Edited by XFllo on Nov 19th 2019 at 11:18:43 AM
Absolutely! The example I wanted to put back (I think there were others but this is the one that comes to mind) is a subversion is on Veronica Mars, for Meg Manning.
Edited by harrietvanger on Nov 8th 2019 at 3:28:02 AM
Hmm, let me think:
The sweet part is explained fairly well, especially the moment that Veronica thinks she's too sweet and that she's oblivious to the suffering of Veronica as a victim. That points to the naive yet idealistic belief of Spoiled Sweet characters that all people are wonderful.
However, does she appear to be sheltered or coddled? For example, do her friends indulge her in some way or are they willing to baby her? Without the pampering, it's most likely just a Nice Girl.
The Reveal does put her in different light.
Sadly, I'm not familiar with the series.
Fred from Big Hero 6 was cut by the TRS thread mainly because we didn't see his relationship with his parents. Since Big Hero 6: The Series does show this, I think this should be re-evaluated.
We can talk about him. Of course.
However, I think it has been demonstrated that this is a gendered trope. Any valid male example should be at least considered weak, effeminate or not tough enough for a guy because of his sweetness and naivety.
I originally thought this could be a gender-neutral trope (see my posts in the linked TRS) but I was convinced otherwise.
I'd also add that to know about a relationship with one's parents is not absolutely required for this trope.
Spoiled Sweet can be pampered by anyone: friends, aunts and uncles, older siblings, parental substitutes, loving servants... The important part is that they're 'taken care of' and showered with love, attention and material things.
Edited by XFllo on Nov 11th 2019 at 11:45:19 AM
Wicks down to 1000.
Gia from Characters.Veronica Mars
This is basically a Zero-Context Example. It's now commented out. Judging from other tropes listed on the character sheet, she most likely fits but the example context needs to be better.
Not all daughters of influential men are pampered or sheltered. And "she's anything but nice" is very vague. Concrete examples of her "sweetness" would be ideal.
ETA: Again it's growing. 818. I hope the new wicks are not misuse or examples put back without discussion. :-)
Edited by XFllo on Dec 5th 2019 at 5:23:16 PM
There's a new ATT query about whether princesses can apply or not.
Confusion About The Trope Spoiled Sweet
I don't understand why people don't post their questions here directly.
One questionable example from Professor Layton:
He's just a small preteen kid and seems more like a Cheerful Child, Animal Lover and Nice Guy.
Not Spoiled Sweet.
Can I have some feedback on this example from Beast? It seems pretty ZCE/insufficient context. ~Melinda has tried to improve it, but I still don't see the trope in the write-up.
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How well does it match the trope?