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Difference between Wrong Genre Savvy and Wrong Assumption

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eroock Since: Sep, 2012
#1: Oct 25th 2019 at 2:58:17 PM

I have trouble drawing the line between Wrong Genre Savvy and Wrong Assumption. Both seem to be about characters making wrong judgments about tropes in their world.

4tell0life4 Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
#2: Oct 25th 2019 at 3:01:02 PM

Wrong Assumption is the supertrope: it's far more general. It's wrongly assuming about virtually anything.

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eroock Since: Sep, 2012
#3: Oct 25th 2019 at 3:17:30 PM

^ Not helping. In what way is Wrong Assumption broader? The description says it's about wrong assumptions around tropes, not anything else.

4tell0life4 Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
#4: Oct 25th 2019 at 5:56:04 PM

[up] it's misleading. Check the examples, it can apply to anything.

We can never truly eradicate the coronavirus, but we can suppress its threat like influenza
WarJay77 It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000) from My Writing Cave (Troper Knight) Relationship Status: Armed with the Power of Love
It's NaNo, Bay-beeee! (8,356/50,000)
#5: Oct 25th 2019 at 6:02:22 PM

[up] Ooooor the examples are wrong.

Working on: Author Appeal | Sandbox | Troper Wall
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#6: Oct 25th 2019 at 7:45:46 PM

Wrong Genre Savvy should be when someone is 'Wrong' Genre Savvy, as in they think they are in say an an action movie and assume/act accordingly but its a romcom.

Wrong Assumption should be just an obviously wrong assumption and not based on genre stereotypes, one that they should be required to be punished for in some way.

Both though have the issue of people thinking 'This Is My Story and I am the protagonist' but they are not, which I would actually put in another trope.

Edited by Memers on Oct 25th 2019 at 7:55:43 AM

eroock Since: Sep, 2012
#7: Oct 25th 2019 at 7:56:19 PM

The description and examples were at odds from the get go so I can only assume (perhaps wrongly so) that the creator wasn't really sure where to go with this.

Two possibilities come to mind for Wrong Assumption:

  1. There is Entertainingly Wrong which plays up the comedy in situations where a character is wrong while having the facts rights. There may be space for a dramatic version of it where a character is jumping to a wrong conclusion and it's played for drama (leading to a downfall etc).
  2. Make it all about wrong assumptions about character roles/tropes. Wrong Genre Savvy would be a sister trope that deals with the same concept for plot/genre tropes. It's not clearcut since tropes can be character and plot tropes at the same time but it would be a clearer profile from what it is now.
    • Example Wrong Assumption: Bob thinks that he is the hero of the group but consistently fails to deliver and eventually settles for being the lancer.
    • Example Wrong Genre Savvy: Bob is a cop who thinks he is in a Police Procedural but actually he is in a buddy-cop action-comedy.

Edited by eroock on Oct 28th 2019 at 2:47:51 AM

4tell0life4 Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
#8: Oct 26th 2019 at 12:05:11 AM

That is why I thought Wrong Assumption could be the supertrope of the whole Mistaken for Index.

We can never truly eradicate the coronavirus, but we can suppress its threat like influenza
Memers Since: Aug, 2013
#9: Oct 26th 2019 at 12:43:56 AM

[up][up] I would agree with that although I would rename Wrong Assumption and add a " to Wrong Genre Savvy so it shows up as "Wrong" Genre Savvy.

eroock Since: Sep, 2012
#10: Oct 26th 2019 at 5:00:38 AM

Which of the two proposed meanings are you guys referring to? They are both mutually exclusive.

KJMackley Since: Jan, 2001
#11: Oct 26th 2019 at 7:22:28 AM

The picture for Wrong Assumption is exactly Wrong Genre Savvy, which doesn't make this easier. Wrong Assumption may be a little broader but it's more about a characters' internal deductions being wrong, consider it a companion to Sure, Let's Go with That. Wrong Genre Savvy is about a character who thinks in story conventions but forgets that tropes can be subverted or they mistake their role in the story.

WikiWanderer nothing to report from The Netherlands Since: Sep, 2018 Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
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#12: Oct 26th 2019 at 11:23:17 AM

Wrong Assumption definitely needs a different image then, and the examples could use a cleanup as well

PSA: a cat is not a dog
eroock Since: Sep, 2012
#13: Oct 26th 2019 at 11:37:58 AM

^ Firstly, it would need a new description that does not talk about tropes as the source of the wrong assumption.

^^ Is "one's internal deductions being wrong" tropeworthy? Or is there more to it you didn't mention here?

4tell0life4 Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
#14: Oct 26th 2019 at 3:48:44 PM

[up] "Someone's deduction being wrong" can be a trope.

  • It can be played for humor.
  • It can be played as a twist, akin to Bait-and-Switch.

We can never truly eradicate the coronavirus, but we can suppress its threat like influenza
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#15: Oct 28th 2019 at 11:39:18 AM

I think it would cause less misuse down the line if all trope and genre-related errors (plot or character) were in Wrong Genre Savvy — so of the two definitions mentioned in comment 7 Wrong Assumption would be the first and Wrong Genre Savvy would cover both the examples in the second.

Eg.

eroock Since: Sep, 2012
#16: Oct 28th 2019 at 12:09:25 PM

In this case it should probably get a rename to emphasize the plot-relevance of the wrong deduction. Something like Tragically Misguided Assumptionnote . And of course a rewrite of the description and sorting of examples. But that's all TRS stuff.

Edited by eroock on Oct 28th 2019 at 12:12:36 PM

4tell0life4 Since: Mar, 2018 Relationship Status: Giving love a bad name
#17: Oct 28th 2019 at 2:29:27 PM

[up] No "comical" examples? Or examples of neither?

We can never truly eradicate the coronavirus, but we can suppress its threat like influenza
eroock Since: Sep, 2012
#18: Oct 28th 2019 at 7:45:51 PM

I was hoping Entertainingly Wrong could cover this if played for laughs.

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#19: Oct 30th 2019 at 9:41:58 AM

In any case, there's definitely an issue with the descriptions being similarly trope-focused. Should we do a wick check for Wrong Assumption before shipping it off to the Trope Description Improvement Drive?

Edited by Synchronicity on Oct 30th 2019 at 11:44:35 AM

eroock Since: Sep, 2012
#20: Oct 31st 2019 at 4:10:18 AM

The description change would be so fundamental that it's more of a case for TRS. Wick check is mandatory, I guess.

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#21: Nov 1st 2019 at 3:42:25 PM

Did a quick wick check.

Wick check for Wrong Assumption

     Wrong about genre, character role, or tropes in the story 
  1. BettyAndVeronica.LiveActionTV: Character assumes she's in a Love Triangle when she's really a Hopeless Suitor
  2. Characters.JaneTheVirgin: Assumes wrong role in the story (protagonist vs villain)
  3. ComicBook.FunHome: Assumes wrong role and genre (heroine in drama vs comic relief in tragedy)
  4. Fanfic.ReactWatchBelieveYikes: Assumes wrong genre of Show Within a Show
  5. Literature/Bunnicula: Wrong about role in the story (assumes they're the Arch-Enemy to a vampire)
  6. Literature/Spellfall: Wrong about type of story (doesn't believe magic exists)
  7. VideoGame/ReaderRabbit (first entry): Thinks they are the hero in a rescue story

     Wrong about anything in general 
  1. AttackOnTitan.TropesSToZ: Wrong about the mechanisms of a superpower
  2. Characters.ArifuretaFromCommonplaceToWorldsStrongest: Wrong about someone's power level
  3. Characters.BewareTheBatman: Wrong about the nature of a relationship, character assumes it's Dating Catwoman but example doesn't clarify if she's aware of the trope
  4. Characters.BlackkatsReverse: Wrong about why someone is at a location
  5. Characters.DannyPhantomOthers: Assumes someone is a villain with no mention of trope awareness
  6. Characters/DeptfordMice: Wrong about someone's mother and their morality
  7. Characters/DigimonWorldInfamyDemonLords: Wrong about power level
  8. Characters.Freezing: Wrong battle decision, mentions someone is a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds but doesn't mention trope awareness
  9. Characters/GranblueFantasyEventAntagonists: Wrong about someone being a thug
  10. Characters/IWasASwordWhenIReincarnated: Wrong about someone's power level
  11. Characters/LordElMelloiIICaseFiles: Wrong about someone being alive
  12. Characters.MyWifeIsADemonQueen: Wrong decision during battle
  13. Characters/NidomeNoYuusha: Wrong about someone's motives and power level
  14. Characters.PersonaOneLastPromise: Wrong about someone's identity, and mistaking something for a love letter
  15. Characters.ShallWeDateNinjaShadow: Wrong about someone's identity
  16. Characters/StarWarsAnakinSkywalker: Wrong about someone's motives
  17. Characters.Veep: Wrong about what someone meant during a phone call
  18. Characters.WithThisRingSupportingCharacters: Wrong about the nature of a relationship
  19. ComicBook.DuckTales: Wrong about someone's motives, and about how brainwashing can be cured
  20. ComicBook/RedDaughterOfKrypton: Wrong about superpower usage
  21. Fanfic.ButYouGottaGetUpAtLeastOnceMore: Wrong about someone being a character's successor
  22. Fanfic/LifeOreDeath: Making wrong assumptions as a consistent character trait
  23. Fanfic.WhatsWorseThanAVillain: Wrong deduction about who did it given witness's wording
  24. Film.Rose: Wrong about the reasons for someone's odd habits
  25. Literature.HaloContactHarvest: Wrong about several things during First Contact
  26. Main.MatingSeasonMayhem: Wrong about why dogs are following her
  27. Manga.ADayInTheLife: Wrong about harasser's identity, and the context of a gift
  28. Manga/MachigattaKoWoMahouShoujoNiShiteShimatta: Wrong about someone being a murderer
  29. Manga.SenryuGirl: Wrong about someone's nature (Face of a Thug) and another character's actions (assumes they're going through rebellious phase)
  30. Podcast.BigData: Wrong about who the thieves are
  31. Recap.AThingOfVikingsChapter13WakeupCalls: Wrong about what a society considers acceptable
  32. Recap.CornerGasS4E10OnePianoFourHands: Wrong about someone not being patronizing
  33. Recap.MashS4E2ChainOfCommand: Wrong about the source of a rash
  34. Recap/MashS4E5HeyDoc: Wrong about someone's motives
  35. Recap.MurderSheWroteS3E20TheDaysDwindleDown: Wrong assumption at a crime scene
  36. Recap/MyLittlePonyFriendshipIsMagicS6E17TheTimesTheyAreAChangeling: Thinks someone is evil
  37. Recap/OKKOLetsBeHeroesS3E11BigReveal: Wrong about someone being a villain
  38. Recap.OnceUponATimeS6E17Awake: Wrong about someone's motives
  39. Recap/PokemonS20E4FirstCatchInAlolaKetchumStyle: Wrong about what a mon will do next
  40. Recap/SupernaturalS12E01KeepCalmAndCarryOn: Wrong about the structural organization of Hunters
  41. Roleplay.TrustfellRoundSix: Wrong about who's a target of a hunt
  42. VideoGame/ReaderRabbit (second entry): Wrong about motives
  43. WesternAnimation.SecretMillionairesClub: Wrong about pig feeding habits

    ZCE 
  1. Characters.GreysAnatomy: Doesn't give examples of wrong assumptions but says the character's brain works a mile a minute, so possibly the latter

Looks like these are overwhelmingly in favor of "wrong about anything", like the examples. So it's the description that needs an overhaul.

Edited by Synchronicity on Nov 6th 2019 at 7:20:11 AM

eroock Since: Sep, 2012
#22: Nov 6th 2019 at 1:23:35 AM

^ Thanks for the wick check. That looks quite conclusive. Alas, I cannot use your markups to create a TRS thread. You mind doing it?

Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#23: Nov 6th 2019 at 5:21:36 AM

[up]I'm too tied up IRL at the moment to start and maintain a TRS inquiry, but I've put the markup here smile

Edited by Synchronicity on Nov 6th 2019 at 7:21:59 AM

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