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Hello and welcome! This here thread is a spoiler-free zone!

Things that are acceptable here:

  • Trailers and trailer speculation
  • Discussion of Star Wars movies and shows, and what we would like to see/not like to see in them.
  • Discussion about anything and everything Star Wars, just...no spoilers.

Things that are not-acceptable here:

  • Spoilers! No talking about the leaks!
  • Being mean! If you disagree with someone's opinion, try not to come across as mean or rude.

And here. we. go.

    Original text of OP 
Hello and welcome! This here thread is a spoiler-free zone! Because I didn't want to be tempted to read anymore spoilers for Rise of Skywalker!

Things that are acceptable here:

  • Trailers and trailer speculation
  • Discussion of the Star Wars movies and what we would like to see/not like to see in them.
  • Discussion about anything and everything Star Wars, just...no spoilers.

Things that are not-acceptable here:

  • Spoilers! No talking about the leaks!
  • Being mean! If you disagree with someone's opinion, try not to come across as mean or rude.

And here. we. go.

Rise of Skywalker Final Trailer:

Mr. Sunday's Ten Easy To Miss Details in Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Final Trailer Breakdown):

This cool mashup of Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker and Avengers: Endgame trailers:

And also here's a trailer for The Mandalorian:

Edited by Mrph1 on Aug 31st 2024 at 8:23:29 PM

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#21276: Jul 8th 2022 at 5:56:13 PM

Nevermind that Star Wars always had politics in it.

Arguably, one of the most poignant scenes from A New Hope was the meeting of Imperial officials on the Death Star.

And I don't see anybody complaining about that one. tongue

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#21277: Jul 8th 2022 at 6:02:12 PM

@At the films all being fandom responses at their core: yeah, basically, albeit in different ways for each film.

What I said about TLJ re-emphasizing Kylo, applies to basically everything. Nearly every arc in that film was a repeat of an arc in the first film, but with MOAR EMPHASIS so that there was no room for . The fans were deep in the mystery box, assuming there were hints for all sorts of things that there were never actually hints for (hence why people thought the film was "contradicting" TFA, when it was actually just repeating it), and TLJ addressed all of that - I don't know what the timeframe was there, but it definitely felt like it was specifically target at the fan response, albeit in an adversarial sort of way: "no, Kylo isn't going to turn good. He chose to be evil, remember? If you don't, here it is again." "No, Rey isn't related to anyone. What's important is the people she found, not the family she left behind, remember? If not, here it is again." Etc.

TROS, on the other hand, was blatantly an attempt to Win Back the Crowd by justing doing whatever the Internet Backdraft asked for. "You and a Kylo redemption? You got it!" "You want less Rose? You got it!" "You want Rey to be related to someone? You got it!" Etc.

And of course, TFA started it all by trying to be the OT again and cultivate hype by applying itself directly to our nostalgia bones.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 8th 2022 at 6:03:23 AM

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#21278: Jul 8th 2022 at 6:04:04 PM

I do wonder who the original Final Boss was going to be, when the trilogy was in its earliest development and before the fan backlash and Fisher's death.

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#21279: Jul 8th 2022 at 6:05:59 PM

I'm guessing Kylo. Even given that they claimed not to have a plan, it's noticeable that both TFA and TLJ conclude with pushing Kylo as a dangerous person who has ascended to a place that will only enable him to become worse.

I always figured the idea was to have the villains' side of the trilogy be the slow ascension of Kylo into the most dangerous threat in the galaxy.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 8th 2022 at 6:06:12 AM

ECD Since: Nov, 2021
#21280: Jul 8th 2022 at 6:06:07 PM

They may have been trying to appease folks, but it seems at least equally likely to me that they were just telling the story they wanted to tell and that that ended up being schizophrenic and not very good. TFA was a response to what Abrams didn't like about the prequels, TLJ about what Rian didn't like about TFA and TROS as what Abrams didn't like about TLJ. Seems like the problem was more Armed with Canon than any attempt to appease outside screamers, at least to me, but I don't track behind the scenes stuff (though I am significantly dubious of any post-hoc explanations that conveniently excuse the people who actually created a rather unfortunate series).

ETA: In universe, yes, Kylo absolutely should have been the final boss, after TLJ. Probably even beforehand given how much of a nonentity Snoke was.

Edited by ECD on Jul 8th 2022 at 6:07:09 AM

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#21281: Jul 8th 2022 at 6:07:14 PM

That one vid describing the ST as an anti trilogy summed it up. The whole ST felt more like a reaction to something rather than trying to tell a story in its own right.

Disgusted, but not surprised
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#21282: Jul 8th 2022 at 6:08:04 PM

LJ about what Rian didn't like about TFA and TROS as what Abrams didn't like about TLJ

I don't really agree with that. As I explained before, TLJ doesn't really contradict or negatively approach TFA in any way. It's more adversarial to the fan theories than it is to the film itself - ultimately, it's just "TFA's character arcs again, but with less ambiguity."

And I'd be surprised if Abrams opinion on TLJ was anything but damage control. I doubt any of the changes in TROS were because Abrams, specifically, didn't like how TLJ went. The internet wrote the niceties of that movie more than he did.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 8th 2022 at 6:12:51 AM

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#21283: Jul 8th 2022 at 6:10:49 PM

[up][up]

Actually gonna link it for posterity again:

I wish that guy would put out videos more often, to be honest. He's got some interesting takes on the franchise without the obnoxious whinging that makes up so much of YouTube's "Star Wars critic" industry.

I do wonder who the original Final Boss was going to be, when the trilogy was in its earliest development and before the fan backlash and Fisher's death.

I assume Snoke - before TLJ unceremoniously offed the guy because Johnson probably realised that having some off-brand Palpatine character be the Big Bad didn't really work that well. At least that's my suspicion. tongue

I think that's why Palpatine was ultimately brought back - Snoke was already basically "Palpatine, but less interesting", so might as well bring back the real deal.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Jul 8th 2022 at 3:20:26 PM

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
ECD Since: Nov, 2021
#21284: Jul 8th 2022 at 6:15:47 PM

[up][up]Fair, I said didn't like, but a more reasonable position would be 'responding to' or something similar.

Mega_zxa Since: Mar, 2015
#21285: Jul 8th 2022 at 6:44:47 PM

Hmm... thinking about it how well would you say the ST handled hiding its narrative causality?

I'm wondering about this because I feel that is a big problem the ST had. It felt very easy to tell that certain things happened mostly because the plot says they happened.

Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#21286: Jul 8th 2022 at 7:12:03 PM

Narrative causality isn’t the problem. The whole franchise of Star Wars got started because the plot said the bad guys couldn’t shoot a seemingly empty escape pod just to be safe. The goal is to create compelling characters and stakes so that even if the audience does notice the plot strings they suspend their disbelief.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#21287: Jul 8th 2022 at 8:22:18 PM

In Duel of the Fates, Leia's role wasn't really all that big or different than TROS as I recall.

She was just there to convince Rey to get together with Poe, and to help redeem Kylo Ren in his last moments.

She didn't die as I recall.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Mega_zxa Since: Mar, 2015
#21288: Jul 8th 2022 at 9:01:18 PM

[up][up] And that is the problem the ST didn't create a good enough story or use its characters well enough that the strings of narrative causality were hidden. A story can live or die on how well it can hide the strings of narrative causality, and the ST didn't hide them very well.

HamburgerTime Since: Apr, 2010
#21289: Jul 8th 2022 at 9:08:18 PM

Even as an unapologetic pro-Sequel fan, I’ll admit the fact that the Wayfinder was designed to correspond to not just the Death Star II but a specific part of its WRECKAGE made me go bzuh. So it was made after the station blew?

Though this being, well, Star Wars I’m sure we’ll one day get an explanation that gives the reasons for this in extreme, nigh-uncomfortable detail. Hey, that random Cantina patron murders every man she screws!

KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#21290: Jul 8th 2022 at 10:14:33 PM

We are getting a whole lot of Ochi of Bestoon stuff in the books and comics these days, so maybe.

He's a surprisingly awesome character, though, so I guess it works out.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 8th 2022 at 10:14:42 AM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#21291: Jul 8th 2022 at 10:39:29 PM

Yeah I was amazed at how much I enjoyed him in the Vader comics.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#21292: Jul 8th 2022 at 11:20:13 PM

I still maintain that going for a quadrilogy(tetralogy?) instead of a trilogy, making movie 9 about both sides recovering some of their losses (Resistance manages to raise a force banking on TLJ's ending, Kylo and Hux maybe manage to, I dunno, find a Sith temple or something, maybe find the Sith Eternal or Exegol if you wanna use that.) Then movie 10 is the final clash. Then again I imagine they had already signed off for a trilogy, so that's tough luck.

DarthNoxIsCool Since: Jun, 2022
#21293: Jul 8th 2022 at 11:25:47 PM

It's funny to think that Vader and Sidious were defeated by Jedi who were still Padawans.(Luke and Rey)

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#21294: Jul 8th 2022 at 11:29:02 PM

Hmm, isn't Luke technically a Knight by then, since he made his lightsaber and sorta-kinda completed his training?

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#21295: Jul 8th 2022 at 11:30:43 PM

IIRC Luke was indeed technically a Jedi Knight.

Leviticus 19:34
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#21296: Jul 8th 2022 at 11:31:35 PM

I think he's on the cusp of it yeah.

He's definitely had some travel and world experience by then.

Meanwhile in Rey's case you are left with the implication that she has never left that training planet she tutored under Leia in the time between TLJ and TROS

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 8th 2022 at 11:31:46 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
DarthNoxIsCool Since: Jun, 2022
#21297: Jul 8th 2022 at 11:31:59 PM

Technically Luke, would become a knight after defeating Vader.

Honestly, we can't know how strong Rey is, since all she did was throw back lightning bolts using a lightsaber.

Edited by DarthNoxIsCool on Jul 8th 2022 at 11:35:58 AM

alekos23 Since: Mar, 2013
#21298: Jul 8th 2022 at 11:35:46 PM

Then again I think Rey too could be considered sorta a Knight by TROS, she finished her training with Leia and kinda-sorta reforged Anakin's lightsaber.

So there you have it, Vader and Palpatine got beaten by sorta Jedi Knights. tongue

Edited by alekos23 on Jul 8th 2022 at 9:36:14 PM

DarthNoxIsCool Since: Jun, 2022
#21299: Jul 8th 2022 at 11:37:39 PM

But don't tell the fans, because they will complain that Rey doesn't deserve the title of knight.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#21300: Jul 8th 2022 at 11:40:52 PM

They really should have let her make her own fucking saber

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

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