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Hello and welcome! This here thread is a spoiler-free zone!

Things that are acceptable here:

  • Trailers and trailer speculation
  • Discussion of Star Wars movies and shows, and what we would like to see/not like to see in them.
  • Discussion about anything and everything Star Wars, just...no spoilers.

Things that are not-acceptable here:

  • Spoilers! No talking about the leaks!
  • Being mean! If you disagree with someone's opinion, try not to come across as mean or rude.

And here. we. go.

    Original text of OP 
Hello and welcome! This here thread is a spoiler-free zone! Because I didn't want to be tempted to read anymore spoilers for Rise of Skywalker!

Things that are acceptable here:

  • Trailers and trailer speculation
  • Discussion of the Star Wars movies and what we would like to see/not like to see in them.
  • Discussion about anything and everything Star Wars, just...no spoilers.

Things that are not-acceptable here:

  • Spoilers! No talking about the leaks!
  • Being mean! If you disagree with someone's opinion, try not to come across as mean or rude.

And here. we. go.

Rise of Skywalker Final Trailer:

Mr. Sunday's Ten Easy To Miss Details in Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Final Trailer Breakdown):

This cool mashup of Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker and Avengers: Endgame trailers:

And also here's a trailer for The Mandalorian:

Edited by Mrph1 on Aug 31st 2024 at 8:23:29 PM

FrozenWolf2 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#21126: Jul 5th 2022 at 10:20:22 AM

[1]

I mean yes

but Nowadays Sequelitis tropes are in lists and well

Undoing your previous heroes works is seen as a low effort "Hack" writing choice

Not helped that the ST played Low effort bingo

Vader Jr

Empire 2.0 vs Rebels 0.5

What Republic?

Lone Jedi hero

Death Star 3

All the I can't believe its not X planets

Edited by FrozenWolf2 on Jul 5th 2022 at 12:22:32 PM

Praise be to the absolute Queen
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#21127: Jul 5th 2022 at 10:25:40 AM

Except Luke didn't.

They had him do it and it failed miserably so we should have Luke being a Knight Errant so his actions weren't pointless.

Doing the same plot over and over again until they hit on a repetition that sticks is one the primary issues that already negatively affected Rey and the ST during its run - so I'd rather they didn't keep doing it.

Whether Luke succeeded in rebuilding the Jedi Order doesn't matter in regards to what Rey should be doing as a character. They need to stop using Rey as a vehicle to repeat the plotlines of other characters.

If Rey's characterization ultimately just boils down to "Luke, but this time it works," it'd be intensely disappointing imo.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jul 5th 2022 at 10:34:26 AM

FrozenWolf2 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#21128: Jul 5th 2022 at 10:36:37 AM

Honestly yeah

Just Reveal Luke's more senior students have kept the order alive and Rey hooks up with them

Hell Luke and Ahsoka know each other so Have it just be she's took the youngest into hiding

Luke still restarted the order, and its more complex then Kylo burnt one building to the ground and killed a bunch of students

-strictly cause no one was thinking long term they were thinknig $$$$$-

[up] and it make all of Rey's detractor's right

Disney came in FUCKED it up despite all their "promises"

Gave Her the Falcon, Chewie, Made her the Last Jedi so she can rebuild the Order... I mean the only thing she didn't steal was Artoo and thats cause she keeps stealing BB 8 from Poe!!

Edited by FrozenWolf2 on Jul 5th 2022 at 12:39:31 PM

Praise be to the absolute Queen
uncertanSearcher It's always Season of the Witch from Germany Since: Oct, 2017
It's always Season of the Witch
#21129: Jul 5th 2022 at 10:41:09 AM

There are still quite a few Jedi who could still be alive in the ST era as far as we know. I do think the concept of a new Jedi order being formed by several indipendent force users with completely different backgrounds coming together is much more interesting then one person on their own just starting it from scratch again.

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#21130: Jul 5th 2022 at 10:42:23 AM

There's also a bit of Hanlon's Razor here. You disliking how a character is treated does not necessarily mean that the creator is deliberately sabotaging a character, or even necessarily that they were lazy or anything like that. Honestly, it could even be a sign that they had a bit too much artistic ambition without judgement.

Most likely, they sincerely thought killing off the characters served the narrative. This makes sense when you consider that each one serves a different purpose:

  • Han was killed off because Ford wanted him killed off, and to serve Kylo Ren's character arc.

  • Luke was killed off most likely because RJ thought it was genuinely a good send off.

  • Leia was killed off because Carrie died.

To be fair, I can see an argument that it's possible they killed Luke off for fear of a sort of Story-Breaker Team-Up.


Now, I will say that my least favorite decisions of the ST was indeed having Luke's order fail. I've heard it said that they had to go with that angle because of the plot TFA set up, but I actually don't think that's the case. What I'd have probably done is have it so Luke was training people on a hidden planet specifically to prevent his Jedi Order from being purged.


At this point if it were me, what I'd probably go with something vaguely similar and have it so that Luke's academy wasn't as much of a failure as he makes it out to be. I'd go with: When Kylo Ren threw his tantrum, a bunch of Luke's students survived and went into hiding. They weren't a scattered group like with Order 66, though, they were a Jedi Secret Society.

If you need an explanation as to why they weren't present in the ST, I'd probably go with "They were busy hunting down The Sith Eternal in the unknown regions". Could even have it so they forced Palpatine to rush his plans along when he realized that the Jedi Illuminati were onto him, and that's why he sent out his message when he did.

And similarly I don't think Rey should rebuild a Jedi order personally, I'd have her find something like the aforementioned secret society of Jedi if I were doing something post-ST.

Leviticus 19:34
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#21131: Jul 5th 2022 at 10:48:08 AM

I've heard it said that they had to go with that angle because of the plot TFA set up, but I actually don't think that's the case.

I was rewatching TFA yesterday and Han says: “He was training a new generation of Jedi. One boy, an apprentice turned against him, destroyed it all. Luke felt responsible... He walked away from everything.”

Protagonist506 from Oregon Since: Dec, 2013 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#21132: Jul 5th 2022 at 10:48:45 AM

[up]Ah, ok. I haven't seen TFA since TROS came out so my bad.

Leviticus 19:34
FrozenWolf2 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#21133: Jul 5th 2022 at 10:58:04 AM

... Which is impressive since the entire premise of the Movie is Luke Vanished without a trace and no one really knows what going on with him or Kylo.

Though Han, Leia and the other guy clearly know Kylo is Ben

maybe this is what happens when you write a script based on bullet points and wouldn't it be cool blurbs?

Praise be to the absolute Queen
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#21134: Jul 5th 2022 at 11:11:06 AM

I still argue Luke shouldn't have died in TLJ and be given a chance to fix his mistake than just buying the rebels more time.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
uncertanSearcher It's always Season of the Witch from Germany Since: Oct, 2017
It's always Season of the Witch
#21135: Jul 5th 2022 at 11:32:16 AM

I'd go as far as saying that Luke dying in TLJ was one of the most cop out ways the ark they were going for with him could possibly end.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#21136: Jul 5th 2022 at 11:35:21 AM

And it results in Kylo Ren being responsible for the deaths of his entire family.

No wonder not many buy his redemption.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#21137: Jul 5th 2022 at 11:38:33 AM

Dude murdered his father, and drove his uncle and mom to the grave.

He is a total Kinslayer alright

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#21138: Jul 5th 2022 at 12:16:50 PM

Death isn’t really the end for Jedi like Luke.

dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#21139: Jul 5th 2022 at 12:54:33 PM

Or non jedi like Han apparently.

theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#21140: Jul 5th 2022 at 1:05:22 PM

People just need to stop letting JJ Abrams near things. Especially if he doesn't understand the source material, like in the case with Rey's lightsaber.

slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#21141: Jul 5th 2022 at 1:08:26 PM

If given opportunity its only a matter of time until he brings back Mace Windu but as a white guy this time.

So yeah keep him out of here.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
FrozenWolf2 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#21142: Jul 6th 2022 at 8:23:05 AM

I don't think JJ would do something THAT out of touch

I mean he is a space cadet but I don't think he is that divorced from reality

Praise be to the absolute Queen
uncertanSearcher It's always Season of the Witch from Germany Since: Oct, 2017
It's always Season of the Witch
#21143: Jul 6th 2022 at 9:15:46 AM

I would hope Disney have at lest learned enough now to not let J.J. near a Star Wars project again.

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#21144: Jul 6th 2022 at 9:19:23 AM

[up][up]

I mean, did cast a white Britsh guy as Khan in Star Trek, sooo...

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#21145: Jul 6th 2022 at 9:22:38 AM

@Tuckerscreator, yeah but he's still dead. He can't actively help the resistance aside from giving advice to Rey and haunt Kylo Ren.

The latter of which, only happens in that alternate IX script.

I do wish they had Luke train Rey instead of getting a CGI Leia to do it.

Like Disney really gives off the vibe of not wanting to do anything with Luke, and wanting to give more attention to Leia.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
FrozenWolf2 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#21146: Jul 6th 2022 at 9:27:10 AM

Granted the attention isn't all that great since the NEU pretty much paints Leia as the reason Kylo's as screwed up as he is.

Praise be to the absolute Queen
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#21147: Jul 6th 2022 at 9:27:45 AM

How so?

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#21148: Jul 6th 2022 at 10:05:09 AM

I don’t get the impression that Lucasfilm is avoiding Luke. In most media I instead get the impression that they’re so fixated on portraying him as flawless and static rather than an evolving character with personality and flaws. Ghost Luke still had an opportunity to develop his character beyond an archetype. In the OT we learned more about Kenobi as a spirit then when corporeal.

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#21149: Jul 6th 2022 at 10:17:10 AM

And what media is that exactly besides the ST?

Besides, Ghost Luke didn't do much evolving at all. He just gave Rey a pep talk, and acted like TLJ didn't happen.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Tuckerscreator (4 Score & 7 Years Ago) Relationship Status: Drift compatible
#21150: Jul 6th 2022 at 10:22:56 AM

His appearances on The Mandalorian Season 2 and Season 2.5 Book of Boba. That TROS proceeded to whitewash him is of the same principle.


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