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Hello and welcome! This here thread is a spoiler-free zone!

Things that are acceptable here:

  • Trailers and trailer speculation
  • Discussion of Star Wars movies and shows, and what we would like to see/not like to see in them.
  • Discussion about anything and everything Star Wars, just...no spoilers.

Things that are not-acceptable here:

  • Spoilers! No talking about the leaks!
  • Being mean! If you disagree with someone's opinion, try not to come across as mean or rude.

And here. we. go.

    Original text of OP 
Hello and welcome! This here thread is a spoiler-free zone! Because I didn't want to be tempted to read anymore spoilers for Rise of Skywalker!

Things that are acceptable here:

  • Trailers and trailer speculation
  • Discussion of the Star Wars movies and what we would like to see/not like to see in them.
  • Discussion about anything and everything Star Wars, just...no spoilers.

Things that are not-acceptable here:

  • Spoilers! No talking about the leaks!
  • Being mean! If you disagree with someone's opinion, try not to come across as mean or rude.

And here. we. go.

Rise of Skywalker Final Trailer:

Mr. Sunday's Ten Easy To Miss Details in Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Final Trailer Breakdown):

This cool mashup of Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker and Avengers: Endgame trailers:

And also here's a trailer for The Mandalorian:

Edited by Mrph1 on Aug 31st 2024 at 8:23:29 PM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#20951: Jun 16th 2022 at 1:21:39 AM

Well, we got the tower of Babel from DC.

And Bats was portrayed as a paranoid jerk for the plans and left the League.

[up] Is it bad to mention that the Sith are generally aligned with capitalists who seek to thrive off of tyrannical regimes? [lol]

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jun 16th 2022 at 4:22:28 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
slimcoder The Head of the Hydra Since: May, 2013
The Head of the Hydra
#20952: Jun 16th 2022 at 1:47:10 AM

People always miss the point, like the aforementioned Tower of Babel story where Batman's contingency plans are supposed to be a huge violation of trust and shit.

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#20953: Jun 16th 2022 at 1:48:04 AM

The best part is that the League would have been fine with those plans.

If they were warned about it.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Forenperser Foreign Troper from Germany Since: Mar, 2012
Foreign Troper
#20954: Jun 16th 2022 at 1:50:46 AM

[up][up][up] At least until they cease being useful, see the Separatist council.

Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#20955: Jun 16th 2022 at 1:59:53 AM

Yeah I was thinking about them when pointing out the Sith are usually aligned with capitalists.

Hell, Sidious was a spoiled rich kid, and Plagueis was a banker. Even the Empire was very accommodating to rich galactic spanning businesses that wanted slave labor.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jun 16th 2022 at 5:00:35 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
uncertanSearcher It's always Season of the Witch from Germany Since: Oct, 2017
It's always Season of the Witch
#20956: Jun 16th 2022 at 2:06:32 AM

As long as they could benefit from their operations the Empire was also still perfectly happy to work with corporations like the Mining Guild.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#20957: Jun 16th 2022 at 2:18:44 AM

The Empire also had no qualms working with organized crime like Jabba the Hutt as long as Jabba always remembered who was really in charge.

This is accurate to real life btw — real life authoritarian regimes like to use organized crime as another lever to control their population.

Disgusted, but not surprised
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#20958: Jun 16th 2022 at 2:40:58 AM

Then had actual posters and propaganda claiming that the Hutts bought out the Rebel Alliance.

Clearly no real life parallel there.[lol]

Edited by RedHunter543 on Jun 16th 2022 at 5:41:12 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
FrozenWolf2 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#20959: Jun 16th 2022 at 6:24:32 AM

For a long time people have been trying to present the Jedi and Sith as simply opposite extremes

except The Jedi aren't the extreme... they are the middle

The Ang tii Monks or any of the Force orders that choose logic or complete isolation are the Sith's opposite

I mean the Jedi devote to the Selfless service of others while the Sith are completely about self interest

I mean Dual tried to pull this but it falls flats...

Honestly its the bad habit of fans to over exaggerate Heroes Failings while over exaggerating a Villains virtues acting like a failing invalidates the Hero's moral standards while the villains are just clearly misunderstood

Praise be to the absolute Queen
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#20960: Jun 16th 2022 at 6:27:16 AM

Even in the time of the PT when the Jedi Order was becoming more dogmatic and isolationist, they still believed that they should behave in an altruistic manner.

Disgusted, but not surprised
FrozenWolf2 (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#20961: Jun 16th 2022 at 6:37:31 AM

Even the Jedi at their most detached NEVER come close to

The unwashed masses don't deserve our kindness let them fend for themselves

'Ironically Cade's Skywalker's argument... The Idiot masses choose to side with the Sith and the Empire, They deserve whatever they fucking get. They can dig themselves out of the grave they dug.

Praise be to the absolute Queen
theLibrarian Since: Jul, 2009
#20962: Jun 16th 2022 at 7:05:36 AM

Yeah. The Jedi's issue wasn't that they became arrogant. They were complacent, and even then, at their "lowest", they were still aware that something was wrong and were noticing how shifty the war was. The issue wasn't that they didn't do anything as Palpatine worked: they simply were outmaneuvered. If anything Anakin was the fulcrum on which the whole thing turned. If he hadn't attacked Windu and given Palpatine the opening he needed, Palpatine would be dead and the Sith would well and truly be extinct.

HeraldAlberich from Ohio (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
#20963: Jun 16th 2022 at 7:17:16 AM

[up][up] The closest the Jedi come to that in Legends is the Outbound Flight project, led by the original Jorus C'Baoth. He's all about Jedi superiority and leadership instead of humble service, and his project to lead a big chunk of the existing Jedi Order on a grand mission to another galaxy ignores all the good they could do if they stayed—which Chancellor Palpatine wholeheartedly encourages since it gets a ton of Jedi out of the way before the Clone Wars (and he's planning to have them killed once they're out of public sight).

Anakin and Obi-Wan are actually assigned to the mission at first, and Anakin is pointedly depicted as looking up to C'Baoth and admiring his point of view. Then Sidious finds out that his handpicked future Sith is heading out of the galaxy (and into his trap) and comes up with some excuse to get them pulled from the mission before they get too far away.

M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#20964: Jun 16th 2022 at 7:52:57 AM

[up][up]The Jedi Order also had an additional problem since all of the blood spilled and ill will spread by the war itself was clouding their ability to perceive the Force. Too much bad mojo.

They knew something was wrong, but the Dark Side was being quite literal in these circumstances.

Edited by M84 on Jun 16th 2022 at 10:53:46 PM

Disgusted, but not surprised
HandsomeRob Leader of the Holey Brotherhood from The land of broken records Since: Jan, 2015
Leader of the Holey Brotherhood
#20965: Jun 16th 2022 at 8:53:40 AM

Sometimes, we get so disappointed by so called good guys in real life (especially when they are with the government), that we forget that fiction doesn't need to be bound by such things.

That and our obsession with Evil Is Cool.

One Strip! One Strip!
Whowho Since: May, 2012
#20966: Jun 16th 2022 at 9:05:22 AM

Yeah I like to think of the Jedi as imperfect but still heroes trying to make the world a better place.

Out of the Jedi Order and the Republic, I think the Jedi are the greater force for good.

CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#20967: Jun 16th 2022 at 9:06:06 AM

The Sith are fascists basically and the best works remember this like Knights of the Old Republic. Which means they're so Lawful Evil they circle round to Always Chaotic Evil.

Because the leader can do no wrong and everyone else must kneel.

Out of the Jedi Order and the Republic, I think the Jedi are the greater force for good.

It's kind of sad because this is like saying, "I think Superman is the greater force for good tham Lex Luthor."

Which implies someone has screwed up to make that even a question in presentation.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jun 16th 2022 at 9:07:39 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#20968: Jun 16th 2022 at 9:26:52 AM

Again, Kotor era is one of the best presentation of the Sith.

They can present themselves as a coherent ideology, proclaim they are the free Force users, and the Jedi are losers who are inefficient incompetent sheltered weaklings.

Then you take a closer look, and see just how incompetent and inefficient their ideology and methodology are.

The Korriban section easily demonstrates why a Light Side Jedi can run circles around an entire academy of dumbass dark siders. We need more examples of magnificent bastard and generally cool Light Side users.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
KnownUnknown Since: Jan, 2001
#20969: Jun 16th 2022 at 9:43:06 AM

The Jedi’s situation reminds me of a note The Order of the Stick made about Paladins’ biggest flaw: the easiest way to trick one is to put them in a situation where there appear to be clearly defined rules, but the truth casts those rules aside.

The rules of engagement with the Jedi were clear: the Separatists were controlled by the dark side, and their victory meant the end of the Republic and the Jedi. Which was true, to a point, and the leapt directly into this set-up without questioning it until it was too late.

The idea that the Republic itself could be plotting against them never came to mind, because it it didn’t match the situation as they understood it. It’s the reason they always suspected Palpatine’s entourage of containing the Sith Lord but not Palpatine himself: because a Separatist plotting to control the Chancellor fit into the paradigm, and the Chancellor doing so did not.

Edited by KnownUnknown on Jun 16th 2022 at 9:43:21 AM

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#20970: Jun 16th 2022 at 11:25:19 AM

The idea that the Republic itself could be plotting against them

To be fair, the Republic wasn't plotting against them - its chancellor was. The Republic was just another victim in the Sith's scheme.

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
CharlesPhipps Since: Jan, 2001
#20971: Jun 16th 2022 at 11:28:14 AM

The Jedi’s situation reminds me of a note The Order of the Stick made about Paladins’ biggest flaw: the easiest way to trick one is to put them in a situation where there appear to be clearly defined rules, but the truth casts those rules aside.

I like how The Order of the Stick eventually twisted this around as they met all the non-paladin heroes and found that they had utterly boned their defense of the Gates due to their untrusting, paranoid, and cynical natures.

It turns out trustworthy people who obey the rule of law were the best to defend the gates.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Jun 16th 2022 at 11:29:33 AM

Author of The Rules of Supervillainy, Cthulhu Armageddon, and United States of Monsters.
EmeraldSource Since: Jan, 2021
#20972: Jun 16th 2022 at 11:51:17 AM

One of the themes of the prequel era was the gradual destruction of Jedi principles because of the Clone Wars, which in turn fostered the decline of public relations with the rest of the galaxy. They were constantly making small sacrifices to their policies because they felt it was a temporary necessity to deal with the war, which was exactly the opening Palpatine used to secure his power base. His acclimation of power didn't seem as extreme as the militarization of the Jedi themselves. "War itself was the trap."

Comics are just words and pictures. You can do anything with words and pictures.
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#20973: Jun 16th 2022 at 6:52:22 PM

Regarding the earlier talk about other Force organisations besides the Jedi and Sith - aside from fully canonising the Nightsisters, Clone Wars also introduced the Dagoyan Order.

What is interesting in their case is that they - and by extension Bardotta whose government the order is a part of - has rather dim view on the Jedi Order due to some past misunderstandings (they did not approve of earlier attempts to induct Bardottan children into the Jedi Order and saw it as violation of Bardottan sovereignty).

They're apparently also a successor to a Dark Side cult that used to rule Bardotta in the past and which is still around as The Remnant - Jar-Jar and Mace have to fight those guys in the arc where they team up.

There's clearly more to the Force and Force-sensitives than Jedi and Sith - I think it's mainly due to those organisations' conflict being very much intertwined with the Republic's history that those two tend to get more attention, while most other Force organisations tend to "mind their own business". tongue

Heck, Bendu from Rebels is a good example. The guy can be terrifying, especially since we have no idea what he actually is or if he's even an actual living being - but he's also got major "get off my lawn" vibes and hangs around on some uninhabited Outer Rim planet.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Jun 16th 2022 at 3:55:12 PM

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
M84 Oh, bother. from Our little blue planet Since: Jun, 2010 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
Oh, bother.
#20974: Jun 16th 2022 at 8:59:04 PM

Heck, the Nightsisters also stuck to Dathomir for all of their existence.

Talzin's attempts to expand beyond Dathomir would be the end of their existence.

Disgusted, but not surprised
uncertanSearcher It's always Season of the Witch from Germany Since: Oct, 2017
It's always Season of the Witch
#20975: Jun 16th 2022 at 9:26:45 PM

The Nightsisters are probably a good example off how Palpatine would deal with any indipendent group of force users that make their presence known in the galaxy. He would view them all as potential rivals to be destroyed preemptivly. We still dont know what happened to the Dagoyan order under the Empire but I cant imagine it was anything good.


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