The General Star Wars Thread

JJ is a unique man. In that he's managed to total his reputation in star wars thanks to tros despite getting praise for tfa (which tbf had massive issues that I think me and others ignored at the time since we got caught up in the hype).

I don't really take it as an attempt to prop up Rey, I just think it was meant to be some easter egg Cameo

It's really not a big leap that Ashoka would be dead by that point.

I’ve been thinking - having the New Republic fall to remnants of the Empire isn’t a terrible idea in and of itself, especially if you wanted to lean into the cyclical nature of the conflict. Maybe the moral is that a centralized galactic authority is too vulnerable to fascist subversion and is just repeating the mistakes of the past, and a looser alliance would be better.

The problem is that that’s easily worth an entire movie in its own right, and would have made a great Downer Beginning, essentially speedrunning the prequel trilogy. There are a few ways this could be done, but the result could have been really interesting.

Instead they treat it with even less gravitas than the destruction of Alderaan, and is clearly there just to go back to Rebels vs. Empire.

Edited by KarkatTheDalek on Jan 22nd 2021 at 1:44:35 PM

The fact that the New Republic and the New Jedi Order failed so catastrophically and got kind of treated like an afterthought would make it feel like they got used as fodder to prop the new guys no matter what, really.

Isn’t it possible to extend your life through proper Force stuff?

Good is impotent in Star Wars.

Edited by slimcoder on Jan 22nd 2021 at 12:11:13 PM

I mean, it's not really accurate to say that the New Republic failed catastrophically. Or, at least if they did, the villains failed even harder. The time skip between Rot J and TFA is comparable to the time period between TPM and Rot J to put it into perspective.

I think Force Users already have a longer lifespan than regular Joes naturally, but yeah, with Sith magic it is off course possible to extend this effect well beyond any natural limits.

Edited by Forenperser on Jan 22nd 2021 at 9:39:06 PM

The Empires v Rebels 2.0 set up of the ST is just so frustrating because if they had wanted to, they had so much other potential story ideas. PT era had the idea that the Jedi being so attached to politics screwed them over, so it could be interesting to have a story where Luke's Jedi Order isn't politically affiliated and that creates conflict with some in the New Republic and various other factions. Set it really far in the future and anything could be done. Heck, take a page off the KOTOR comics and have it where the protagonist is actually considered to be the least talented, and has to rely more on trickery than fighting skills.

Also high five Known Unknown! And I totally agree with the point about genre conventions.

Jedi I think refrain from trying to use the Force to extend their own lives. They accept their mortality and make the most of the time they have.

Even Force Ghosts don’t become Force Ghosts for longer lives, but to be able to help future generations.

Edited by M84 on Jan 23rd 2021 at 9:53:18 PM

The Force extends longevity is basically just something people made up to or came to the conclusion based on the stated ages of Jedi... Then again it could be like War Hammer where general health has extended a human's life span past our own

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Its not meant specifically about throwing Ahsoka under the bus...

but its clear the intent of the scene that the OLD Jedi 'Anakin Luke, Leia, Qui-gon, Obi-wan Ahsoka etc etc' are channeling their power into Rey to end the Sith blood feud once and for all

The scene is supposed to show that Rey is the last of the old and the start of the new

Its a textbook Shonen battle...

I am All the Sith

I am All the Jedi

and I'm Zoidberg!

And there are like millions of Sith cult members, one of them can surely continue after Sheev's death.

Continuing the cycle of Jedi vs Sith again.

Now for once they actually did cover themselves on the Sith thing

The Sith cultists are little more then brainwashed lemmings The Sith don't just tech every member of cannon fodder they bring on board.

Palpy had kept all his Sith Knowledge to himself since he was planning to just take over Kylo or Rey 'Which is in keeping with Palpy's character... even in Legends Palpy only trusted one of his hands to be his legit Vader replacement and she don't exist in DEU

Palpy dying is in fact the legit end of Bane's Sith line

so unless you clone Palpy, Maul or Plagueis

Bane's Line is over

Yeah you can bring them back via A Krayt 'Jedi gone mad and started his own Sith Jedi cult', A lost Tribe 'Missed out on the hyperspace war' or a Luminaya ' Vader's side project '

but The Sith that was the Jedi longest standing enemy is no more.

Okay that makes sense.

So Rey killed the Sith, not Anakin.

I'm sure someone would make the Poetic argument that Rey was just putting down the Ghost and Palpy surviving his original death did not invalidate Anakin.

I mean you could make the argument

Ben technically killed Palpy

cause Rey was dead, Palpy needed an Empty body

Ben revived Rey

Ben died but became one with the force along with Leia

Palpy's spirit had no where to run ergo got dragged off to force hell... Dark empire did it better

I always thought of it like that. Anakin and Luke destroyed the Sith, Rey just mopped up the scraps of Palpatine's soul.

We saw how quickly people would join another rebellion against him, and even if they failed the First Order's incompetence would have led to another successful rebellion eventually. The Sith are good and dead, Palps just needed to take the hint. By having a million volts of electricity blasted in his face.

Honestly, the only reason I think that (besides trying to reconcile shit writing) is just how amazing his face would have looked like had Rey actually said something along those lines to him.

I mean Rise kinda does paint the Galaxy as just tolerating the FO's rule

and the moment Palpy comes back and makes it clear He is just gonna go full Sith Crazy the Galaxy goes... Nope, The empire wasn't that great

and proceeds to fucking off screen the FO

and thats the thing, The film established that Kylo desperately needed the Sith Eternal's numbers to legitimize his rule due to the loss of Starkiller and The Fleet.

Huh, I just read about Dooku's backstory. Pretty darn sad, being abandoned by his father like that, just for being force sensitive.

Then again, it makes him betraying the Jedi all the more ungrateful.

The Dark Side Will Make You Forget.

Speaking of which, while the Clone Wars animated series gets a lot of praise, I think one area it really dropped the ball on is with Dooku himself. They could've spent some time fleshing out his motivations and backstory, but they never did, seemingly content with just keeping him as a mustache-twirling baddie.

Edited by Trooper924 on Jan 23rd 2021 at 5:31:21 AM

I could say the same for how they handled Grievous

Yeah, removing his Legends backstory was a big mistake. Instead they just went the "Hurr durr, I upgraded myself only to become stronger!" route.

"And jealous of Jedi i...guess?????" Exposite some Droid.

Heck his record with killing Jedi is a joke.

TCW has some curious choices in that some of its most developed characters are the characters that do not show up in the subsequent movies. For some odd reason Maul, Savage, Ventress and Ohnaka (if you count him as a villain) get a lot more development and/or nuance than Grievous and Dooku, the ones that actually do show up in ROTS.

The closest to a thing Dooku has to a development arc is the Ventress arc, which includes tidbits of Dooku visibly uncomfortable with betraying Ventress and the famously awesome scene of him dueling the Nightsisters blind, but the arc is obviously about Ventress. What development he gets is incidental.

The best Grievous has is Lair of Grievous, which gives some minor insight in who he was, but it's very minor.

Even in terms of the real "powerplays", Dooku and Grievous are left in the dirt. Maul and Oppress get to deliver the crushing blows to the protagonists, not them.

It's unfortunate, but it does make sense that they would go to further places with the villains who didn't have to be in a specific place by the end of the series than ones they had far more freedom with.

I figure they got stuck in the mindset of Dooku and Grievous being the designated Big Bads of the story, and so the pulp big bads the show was inspired by they never changed much conceptually.

I'd argue Dooku got a little nuance to him, though. The whole "torn between his apprentice and his master" thing, particularly.

Dooku is weird and the fact TCW didn't do much to really flesh him out more was a bit of an issue I had with it

Dookus issue is really that, of all the major SW villains, Dooku is the one that's just kind of.....There.

There's not much that particularly...stands out about him, he's evil but he's not 'Holy crap what a monster!' Levels of evil, and alot of his appearances he just sort of acts like a standard bad guy, Without many levels or Quirks beyond that.