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Hello and welcome! This here thread is a spoiler-free zone!

Things that are acceptable here:

  • Trailers and trailer speculation
  • Discussion of Star Wars movies and shows, and what we would like to see/not like to see in them.
  • Discussion about anything and everything Star Wars, just...no spoilers.

Things that are not-acceptable here:

  • Spoilers! No talking about the leaks!
  • Being mean! If you disagree with someone's opinion, try not to come across as mean or rude.

And here. we. go.

    Original text of OP 
Hello and welcome! This here thread is a spoiler-free zone! Because I didn't want to be tempted to read anymore spoilers for Rise of Skywalker!

Things that are acceptable here:

  • Trailers and trailer speculation
  • Discussion of the Star Wars movies and what we would like to see/not like to see in them.
  • Discussion about anything and everything Star Wars, just...no spoilers.

Things that are not-acceptable here:

  • Spoilers! No talking about the leaks!
  • Being mean! If you disagree with someone's opinion, try not to come across as mean or rude.

And here. we. go.

Rise of Skywalker Final Trailer:

Mr. Sunday's Ten Easy To Miss Details in Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker (Final Trailer Breakdown):

This cool mashup of Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker and Avengers: Endgame trailers:

And also here's a trailer for The Mandalorian:

Edited by Mrph1 on Aug 31st 2024 at 8:23:29 PM

dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#51201: Nov 1st 2025 at 9:25:51 AM

Yes, different actions, in different circumstance, in different shows/project/media, by different creative teams, depict different things differently.

Who'd a thunk it?

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#51202: Nov 1st 2025 at 9:27:16 AM

See, with the Clone Wars, there was this attempt at a theme with pacifism or violence, but with how the framing is done with the dilemma, the writing isn't convincing me that Anakin did the wrong thing in choosing to save lives if anything, it's convincing me Anakin was the Only Sane Man here and Obi-Wan was thinking with his dick.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Nov 2nd 2025 at 12:28:03 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
LoneCourier0 The Wandering Geek from A Diverse Land (Unitroper) Relationship Status: How YOU doin'?
The Wandering Geek
#51203: Nov 1st 2025 at 9:27:35 AM

There is a weird dissonance with how Finn and Anakin are treated by the narrative when killing.

"Cynicism is not realistic and tough. It's unrealistic and kind of cowardly because it means you don't have to try."
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#51204: Nov 1st 2025 at 9:29:27 AM

Yeah, that's something JJ got some flack for, with humanizing the Stormtroopers through Finn, and then treating them as disposable mooks for the heroes to cheer when they die.

Hell, the movie even makes it clear that the First Order have been stealing the young of the Galaxy to make into more Stormtroopers so Finn looks worse than Anakin for cheering when those guys died.

At least when Anakin saved the ship, he got down to business and didn't take any particular glee in killing the terrorist.

So overall, Star Wars chooses violence over pacifism.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Nov 2nd 2025 at 12:30:11 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#51205: Nov 1st 2025 at 9:30:40 AM

[up][up]

There are moments in Clone Wars do the whole "Anakin doing this is really bad and messed up" thing way better. Coincidentally, those also tend to further along in the series. tongue

But the problem with this specific instance is basically: If what Anakin did is the bad thing, what is the good thing?

The spisode doesn't answer that question, Obi-Wan tuts at Anakin like a mildly disappointed parent for a second and then everyone moves on with their lives.

It's just really weird.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Nov 1st 2025 at 5:31:54 PM

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#51206: Nov 1st 2025 at 9:31:22 AM

Exactly, when the writers can't come up with a GOOD moral solution, then I'm cheering for the supposed "evil" moral solution because it at least saved lives.

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#51207: Nov 1st 2025 at 9:31:25 AM

There is a weird dissonance with how Finn and Anakin are treated by the narrative when killing.

Is there though? We're equating, screaming Woo in a firefight where everyone's trying to kill each other in an action movie, to stabbing a guy in the back.

It's weird we're all for Fridge Logic to condemn Finn but Fridge Logic that Anakin's actions were unnecessary is shouted down.

Edited by dcutter2 on Nov 1st 2025 at 4:32:58 PM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#51208: Nov 1st 2025 at 9:32:45 AM

Again, Finn is Force Sensitive, another troper argued that killing is bad in general for Force Users because it damages reality.

So Finn can't act like a typical action hero otherwise he's falling to the dark side. This whole argument started because someone argued killing no matter the reason is wrong.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Nov 2nd 2025 at 12:33:30 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Risa123 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#51209: Nov 1st 2025 at 9:33:16 AM

[up] From where are you getting the "demages reality" thing ?

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#51210: Nov 1st 2025 at 9:34:09 AM

I don't believe it, but here's one of the arguments:

"When a Jedi takes a life, they are damaging the fabric of reality, a reality that they are deeply connected to. If a Jedi ever has to kill someone, they're supposed to be dispassionate it. Not to win brownie points in some "im the better person" contest, but because the more you enjoy harming others, the more you will try to find situations in which to do it."

So by this logic, Finn can't act like an action hero and enjoy killing.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Nov 2nd 2025 at 12:34:27 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#51211: Nov 1st 2025 at 9:34:59 AM

[up][up]

From this post, I assume.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Nov 1st 2025 at 5:37:43 PM

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#51212: Nov 1st 2025 at 9:38:01 AM

I am not responsible for what other tropers have argued.

Shit, if we're going to do this and pull in everyone from everywhere in every situation. Was Luke in danger of falling to the darkside for being excited shooting down TIE Fighters in the Falcon gunturret?

Actually lets not because the whole Finn tangent is a bullshit distraction from the topic we were discussin.g

Edited by dcutter2 on Nov 1st 2025 at 4:39:34 PM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#51213: Nov 1st 2025 at 9:39:27 AM

No, because my argument for that scene was Anakin killing dispassionately. Finn clearly enjoyed it.

I'm reminded of this quote when Anakin kills the terrorist.

"‘It gives me no pleasure to do this,’ said Sharrowkyn. ‘You are nothing to me, simply a rabid dog that needs to be put down.’

Anakin killed in self-defense, and did nothing wrong.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Nov 2nd 2025 at 12:40:13 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#51214: Nov 1st 2025 at 9:40:06 AM

Killing is bad for Jedi in the sense that it harms them on a real spiritual level. Sometimes they have to do it.

Enjoying the act of killing is wrong, for anybody.

Extrapolating that to "Finn is just as bad as Anakin" is not something I have said or agree with.

LoneCourier0 The Wandering Geek from A Diverse Land (Unitroper) Relationship Status: How YOU doin'?
The Wandering Geek
#51215: Nov 1st 2025 at 9:40:40 AM

Really wish they did something more with the Force Sensitvity.

"Cynicism is not realistic and tough. It's unrealistic and kind of cowardly because it means you don't have to try."
RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#51216: Nov 1st 2025 at 9:41:38 AM

[up][up]The thing is, we're talking about the framing, why is it that Finn's killing of Stormtroopers is treated positively by the narrative, when Anakin killing in self-defense is treated badly with the Vader music?

And no, you can't argue that Anakin could have not killed him, there were only two options presented by the writers to the point Obi-Wan doesn't even call Anakin out on the possibility of sparing him.

[up] I have heard John Boyega is open to returning and he was at at a recent Star Wars celebration.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Nov 2nd 2025 at 12:42:36 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
Risa123 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#51217: Nov 1st 2025 at 9:42:11 AM

I was asking for source of that information because I have never heard about that.

DrunkenNordmann from Exile Since: May, 2015
#51218: Nov 1st 2025 at 9:42:41 AM

[up][up][up][up]

You know, my kinda issue with the argument in that particular is:

Is Anakin enjoying that kill? He looks kinda cocky when he catches the detonator, but he always is cocky when he pulls anything off.

Still not a healthy attitude, mind, but I feel like premise used for that particular discussion is a bit flawed.

Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Nov 1st 2025 at 5:43:40 PM

We learn from history that we do not learn from history
ArthurEld Since: May, 2014
#51219: Nov 1st 2025 at 9:44:05 AM

Anakin enjoys killing in general. Its obvious in his character. It's how he proves to himself that he is strong. Its how he establishes that he can punish those who are evil.

Did he enjoy murdering Needa (just as an example) as much as he enjoyed murdering the people who killed his mom? I dunno. I dont think it matters.

dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#51220: Nov 1st 2025 at 9:45:03 AM

[up][up][up][up] They are framed differently because one again, they are different actions, in different situations, in different stories told by different people.

You can pretend they are part of one cohesive whole and equivalent but they are simply not and not meant to be.

eta: if you want to say 'anakin acted for the greater good and the writers are wrong to condemn him for it' then that's fine and it's cohesive argument all by itself. It doesn't need to bring Finn into it.

Edited by dcutter2 on Nov 1st 2025 at 4:47:08 PM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#51221: Nov 1st 2025 at 9:46:01 AM

[up][up] He regrets executing Dooku. That is not a person who enjoys killing like a Khornate.

And in the particular instance, Anakin was pretty dispassionate in killing the terrorist in self-defense.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Nov 2nd 2025 at 12:47:30 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"
LoneCourier0 The Wandering Geek from A Diverse Land (Unitroper) Relationship Status: How YOU doin'?
The Wandering Geek
#51222: Nov 1st 2025 at 9:48:22 AM

Didn't Anakin also regret killing the Tuskan Raiders?

"Cynicism is not realistic and tough. It's unrealistic and kind of cowardly because it means you don't have to try."
Risa123 Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
dcutter2 Since: Sep, 2013
#51224: Nov 1st 2025 at 9:53:09 AM

[up][up] You mean in the confession scene with Padmé? I'm not sure I'd call it regret.... exactly?

He's mainly just really angry about his mother's death and him not being powerful enough to stop it. He still refers to them as animals in that scene.

Edited by dcutter2 on Nov 1st 2025 at 4:53:20 PM

RedHunter543 Crimson Paladin Since: Jul, 2016 Relationship Status: Barbecuing
Crimson Paladin
#51225: Nov 1st 2025 at 9:54:49 AM

I mean, look at his body language, the man clearly is going through a lot of emotions, and he looks haunted when he talks about how he killed the women and children.

Yeah he's calling them animals but you can tell he regrets going too far and he's traumatized.

Anakin clearly doesn't enjoy killing or he would have been VERY happy after that scene instead of horrified and having a breakdown.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Nov 2nd 2025 at 12:55:56 AM

"The Black Rage makes us strong, because we must resist its temptations every day of our lives or be forever damned!"

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